I set the engine and drive in position yesterday. The engine, a pinto, is currently sitting with the pulley over the furthest forward cross member and there is about 35mm between the backof the bell housing and the bulkhead position. This is about 25mm further forward than I anticipated. I can either live with this or extend the trailing links by 25 mm and move everything back. If I do this what effect will the extended wheel base on suspension and steering geometry? I it worth it to move the engine back?

I am also in trouble with space on the driver's side engine bay. I have a conflict between the alternator and the steering, I already have a Micra alternator but the standard bracket makes it foul.

I could also use some suggestions on the exhaust I can't see a viable route certainly the one I got isn't going to fit . Finally the brace won't go this side I don't suppose there is a problem moving it to the other side?

TIA for any ideas

Caber :-)

Why would you need to extend the trailing links? Not sure how this is affected by engine position.
Can the alternator be moved to the other side? I've heard of people doing this before.
The exhaust could either go through the body work/pnels or as mine will and go over the chassis/through/under the bonnet side.
Could the brace be replaced with a y brace rather than the normal straight one? I've done this, and am putting one on both sides of the engine bay.

Engine + gearbox + propshaft + back axle = 1" too long! On the pinto the distributor is at the front on the opposite side so nowhere to put alternator. On the right side I can probably make a custom bracket to lift the alternator however the top mount on the alternator then hits the short brace at the front

Caber

Ah, didn't realsie you already had a prop. Is ther anywhere else level with the front pulley where the alternator could go? As long as the belt's lined up, it doesn't matter where it goes.

Building a Locost, (read highcost), is a bit of a jugling act. In my opinion its good to have the engine as far back as possable, if this means having your propshaft altered, or even having a new one made, (about £120), then thats a small price to pay. I didn't fit my engine bay braces untill I had the engine position settled, so maybe cutting these out and redoing is worth it at little or no cost. As to the alternator, I think that the only route is to fabricate a bracket to fit on the opposite side, I had to do this. I know I have a different engine, (2.9i V6), but if you have a look at my photo archive there is a picture of the bracket I made, which may give you some ideas. Keep up the good work, eventualy it all comes together. ATB Ray.

prop shorten is normally about £50 cash if the UJ's are in good condition.

For the sake of £50 it's not worth compromising engine position.

Plenty of propshaft places near quarries and the like, that's where most of their business comes from.

Will 25mm make that much difference to the balance? What about the option of lengthening the trailing arms? that is a more or less zero cost option at the moment, my wheelbase would lengthen by 25mm so I suppose the balance point only moves 12.5mm back.

This is at the end of the day a road car not a racer so is the problem that serious?

Caber

Not quite sure what you refer to when you say trailing arms, nothing comes to mind. The main advantages to getting the engine back as far as possable is that the gear lever will end up nearer to you, (and not under the dashboard), and the weight will be better distributed. Keep fighting, you will get there in the end. Regards Ray

Trailing arms be the bits that hold a live axle on! They constrain vertical movement the Panhard rod constrains horizontal movement within an arc. legthen the trailing arms then you lengthen the wheelbase

Caber

I've read quite a few posts recommending longer trailing arms - isn't their length one of the discrepancies in the book?

What caber is saying, is that if he moves the engine back by one inch, then the gearbox, propsharft, and differential also move back by one inch.

An one inch increase in wheelbase won't make any noticable difference to the handling (unless you're M.Schumacher ).

Longer trailing arms sound like the locost-est solution

... and go for two y-braces in the engine bay - will improve the handling by stiffening up the front end

Am I the only one who can't see why you arn't shortening your own propshaft?? I have just chopped 8" out of a brand new one (I got of JeolP. Cheers matey!!). it took a short time to make sure it was perfectly straight and the yolks were in line but it cost me nothing but a bit of MIG wire.........and black paint. If it is out of balance when it's up and running, then I'll get it balanced.

Longer trailing arms should help improve things a little as they allow slightly more twist at the back end. However, do you have space for this? Remebering space at full bump and droop. If you do, then it's up to whatever you feel most comfortable doing. Unless you have to alter/make a gear lever extention. But then that depends on how long/how much this costs etc.

When I did the initial measure the back half of the capri prop that came with the back axle, also capri, looked about right so I got the spline stuck on the end with a new Hardy Spicer joint. I am not sure where the measuring discrepancy came from but it is only evident now I have the bits assembled, I suspect this is a result of using the tape measure as the primary measuring equipment!

I am beginning to think I should leave it for now and make sure there is space to move things back later. The next thing is the transmission tunnel. I have heard two different theories on this. First is that it is a vital structural member therefore it should stay the same. The second is that it is structurally irrelevant therefore can be messed around with. I did notice that the Lotus design is a triangulated structure that stops the car folding in the middle. I would like to reduce the height of the tunnel to give a bit more cabin space.

Caber

The height of the tunnel can be lowered, but I would definitely weld in panels. The tunnel IS structural as it is the backbone for the chassis. You can add triangulation if you wish, certainly won''t hurt anything. Adding a few kg's to the chassis in the form of triangulation is worth it. The extra weight is more than offset by the gain in stiffness if done correctly. Better to have a stifffer but slightly heavier chassis and lose a few kg's elsewhere. Read what I hope will be the attachment to this. Thanks go to cyntriks for the work. (if you want this removed please tell me and i'll do so)

try again.
This is the smaller old version. The newer version I've got is too big. Any idea how to get it up anywhere?

[Edited on 28/3/06 by DIY Si]

I'm with Owelly on this. Put everything where you want it then make the prop fit the gap. You won't have enough of it left to need balancing as long as the ends are in the right orientation so it doesn't phase.

i have another spare prop actually if anyone wants one

sorry caber, that doesnt help. Myself, id leave it where it is as a first choice, then lengthen the trailing arms as a second. Doing the prop would definately be my last choice, id weld steering arms all day but not my own prop.

[Edited on 28/3/06 by JoelP]

still don't understand, compromise the whole car build to save £50 on a prop.............................total no-brainer?????????????????????????????

NS DEV the initial question was does mounting the engine 1" further forward than would be otherwise possible compromise the car?

Caber

quote:

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Originally posted by caber
NS DEV the initial question was does mounting the engine 1" further forward than would be otherwise possible compromise the car?

Caber

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James

I don't see how I can get the bell housing in the tunnel.I am building a book width car and there would be no room for feet and pedals if I were to reduce the width. What is the practical minimum distance between the back of the bell housing and bulkhead to preven the engine hitting it during acceleration and braking on standard rubber mounts?

Caber

On rubber mounts (harder ones but they are only £7 from rally design) I have 5mm (at most) between the end of my clutch master cyl and my bellhousing.

I wasn't "having a go" about the engine position, I have just learnt the hard way that if you don't try and get everything you can think of "ideal" to start with, the list of things you are unhappy with is huge by the time you are on the road and you no longer like the car!!

been there and done that!

hi yep ive senn westfield owners spend hundereds to move the engine back an inch .

please dont weld your own prop ive seen what can happen. as ns dev says for the sake of 50 quid.

cheers matt

I did mine and it's still going after 5 years. I've seen prop failures but it's always been on a UJ cracking up not the actual weld or metal breaking.

yes, but you can see Matt's point Pete. Many on here could do it perfectly well, but one mistake would make for a particularly long disaster topic on here.

I prefer to give the job to my prop place (premier props in hartshill) as I would need it balancing anyway.

Hi peteff you are able to do a good job .

But at the end of a long story i wont mention manufacturer or supplier of prop parts there was a one legged man who no longer had a daughter. And this is'nt a joke but true story.

Many people have the ability to do the job. But this then leads other people to think it's just as easy as gobbing a chassis together altho we do have sva these days where hopfully any bad ones will be picked up.

it just scares the sh*t out of me wen i hear of people doing a diy job .

cheers matt