Hi im just in the process of building my 4x4 cossie powered locost. has anyone got any pics of the front suspension with the driveshafts in. i cannot seam to figure out a way of doing this yet. i've tryed loads of dax sites but never get a good image of how the wishbones and suspension are done. Any ideas would be great. Thanks

The Dax system uses a dax own lower ball joint which then bolts to the lower wishbone, I will send you a picture if I have one at home.

Cheers Mike

Yeah a picture would be great, thanks Mike, my email is jamie.benger@tiscali.co.uk

Funilly enough I was helping Martin(Cheffy) paint and prime his chassis yesterday, he's got a 442 chassis with XR4*4 running gear.



Cheffys chassis 1

And compared to a book chassis.


Cheffy's chassis 2

I'd U2U him and have a chat.

ATB Dan.

Hi Jamie,

As Dan said, we just got my 4x4 on it's wheels for the first time yesterday. I've just updated my website. There's pictures on there of how I'm doing it. Also, check out Liams photo's in the archive on this site.

You'll see in the photo that there's a horizontal bar connecting the two inboard upper wishbones. This is obviously only temporary, as are the tie rods connecting each inner wishbone to it's respective outer wishbone. The tie rods will be rose jointed at each end allowing for extra ride height adjustment and then the coilovers will connect from the inner wishbones to the bracket you can see on the chassis below them. This will straddle the nearside driveshaft.

Must say here credit to Alan B as I partially copied his idea, and massive thanks to Dan for all his helps over the last couple of weeks. Thanks Dan!

Hope this helps. If you want to e-mail me there's a contact page on my website.

Cheers,

Mart.

Link to website at bottom of post or:- http://www.martinfrost.me.uk

[Edited on 5/10/06 by Cheffy]

, Hope you don't mind me putting up those pic's.

ATB Dan.

Hi Dan,

No problem mate. Just stuck 'em up on my website.

Mart.

You've made my day......didn't think I'd ever done anything worth copying....

Hi Alan,

Firstly, apologies to Jamie for going slightly off topic.

Alan, you may remember that I e-mailed you some time ago asking if you minded me copying your design (I'm taking so long over this build though it was quite a while ago!).

You very graciously said that that was fine. In fact, you actually pointed out that if you didn't want it copied you wouldn't have posted pictures of it on your website in the first place!

Anyway, thanks again, it's the people like you, with engineering experience, and a helpful attitude, that make the whole build so much easier for people (chef's?) like me with no engineering experience whatsoever.

Thanks again,

Mart.

nothing wrong with a bit of imitation im copying the dax set up on the front of mine and liam has a great way of making up the front prop from stock ford and volvo bits too. i used mk1 fiesta bottom ball joints on the front of mine which sit in the hole on my mk wishbones nicely.

Thanks for the help guys. I'll post some photos once i get started on that area, spent most of my time last night trying to get a frog out my garage, the little bugger!!

Wow - a veritable 4x4 fest!! We'll have our own race series next...

I'll attach a zip of dax quadra build pics i have which may be of some use.

A couple of things regarding the front end worth mentioning... The dax puts the front diff further inboard than it is in the sierra. This allows it to fit in their chassis easily and also for the MK2 escort steering column to only have to climb over the side of the front diff. The price is 2 custom length front driveshafts. On mine i've positioned the diff left-right as it would be in the sierra so i could use the standard intermediate shaft (normally through the sump) and driveshafts. This means, though, that the steering column has to climb over the biggest part of the diff, which i've achieved with lots of ujs and support bearings in my column. You'll have to do one of these, or perhaps find a slightly wider steering rack since you're going for a wider chassis, although this might not be ideal for bump steer.

The other thing is the bottom balljoint. If you're going to use a standard shock position, i.e. loaded bottom balljoint, I'd be wary of using the fiesta lower balljoint as I have which is a nice cheap part to fit in the sierra 4x4 front upright. It's only designed for longitudinal and transverse location loads in the fiesta and mine looks like it'd bend pretty easily if you put vertical loads on it from the suspension - it's not very thick at all in that direction. I'd either use a suspension that loads the top joint, like me and cheffy, or get the beefy dax lower balljoints which they have custom made for this very reason. They aint that cheap though.

Hope that helps,

Liam

Hey Liam, when's your car due to be completed? Reason I ask is there are so few 4x4 Sevens out there, and I'm very curious if the peformance warrants the added complexity.

Oh yes!!!!!

Only way to use big power in a 7 is 4x4 in my humble opinion. (and I am not biased cos mine isn't! )

I have been for a run out in a 480hp Dax quadra and they are not slow!!!

Clever bit is keeping it lightweight.

Ok as promised some pictures hope this helps.








Cheers Mike

Do you get torque steer with one halfshaft being longer than the other? I'm building a Locost with a 392(351) and am keeping the thought in the back of my head that if it is too traction limited I might convert to 4x4.

Not as far as I am aware, I'm usually concentrating too much on holding on.

The mt75 box sends 33% of the power to the front and the rest to the back, so it pushes more than it pulls. My normal car is a small hot hatch and that torque steers more.

Mike

Liam, those "beefy DAX lower joints" are off something else, deffo available off the shelf from the motor factors, just can't remember what!!!!

Think they could be Jag parts?

Yes Nat, I'm tyring to remember what those joints come off as well. I've seen them recently.

On the street rod that I did recently using 4x4 Granada stuff, I used a 20mm spherical joint in a custom housing. Put a 12mm bolt through it as I recall, with bushes in the joint and upright to bring the holes down to the bolt size.

Cheers,
Syd.

I don't doubt you're right, Nat. It was actually Dax themselves that told me they were custom made and wanted to charge me something like 100 quid all in - but that means nothing I suppose . You wouldn't believe what they want for a front propshaft ! Might have to pop down my friendly factors and browse a catalogue...

KB58 - should be ready fairly soon (over winter)! Just sorting the megasquirt install on the engine then electrics. Will only be atmo to begin with (about 200bhp) while i get my head round the squirt, then the turbos after (about 300bhp initially) which should use the 4WD nicely. I would never say 4WD is necessary and i'm not doing it to chase tenths - it's just for the fun and the challenge and cos I really like driving 4WDs!!

Keeping it lightish is indeed the challenge, and i'm nicely on target for 650kg which aint bad for a V6 CEC (even 2WD) with quite a stiff and beefy chassis. The honda V6 with most of it chucked in the bin has helped a lot here - wouldn't have a chance with a cologne...

Liam

[Edited on 11/10/06 by Liam]

quote:

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wouldn't have a chance with a cologne...

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That's some teeny front shocks you must have there (or is it just me?). What are they off and how much suspension travel do you get?

Liam

quote:

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Liam, those "beefy DAX lower joints" are off something else, deffo available off the shelf from the motor factors, just can't remember what!!!!

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Hi Liam,

Avo do 8" shocks which I'm planning on using. They have 2" of travel. However, the outer wishbones are twice the length of the inner wishbones so, in theory, (if my mental arithmatic is correct!) I should have 4" of travel at the uprights.

Also, I have some room for adjustment on the inboard top wishbones and could go with 9" shocks if necessary, or lower the bottom bracket slightly and go even longer.

Mart.

[Edited on 12/10/06 by Cheffy]

Ah right i finally see why you're doing it now - you're going above to clear the front axle wheras I just went behind it with the shocks.

Sure it will work out. Funnily enough you seem to have thought about it and know what you're doing - I'll shut up!

Liam

P.S. Car looks nice Quadra! You may have seen the V8 Quadra that was my inspiration? What are you extracting from the cossie motor? And finally, no offence at all, but i cant help find myself chuckling at yet another Dax rollbar! Hope you never need it

Liam,

Yes. Going over the top of the drive shafts.

As mentioned in the earlier post, the design is based on Alan B's idea. I just modified it slightly (ie. going with the shorter shocks and using the bracket over the drive shafts) to suit my needs.

Mart.

Liam

P.S. Car looks nice Quadra! You may have seen the V8 Quadra that was my inspiration? What are you extracting from the cossie motor? And finally, no offence at all, but i cant help find myself chuckling at yet another Dax rollbar! Hope you never need it

long thread but say.
some saying that bad handling 4x4, but i noticed no one thing. Most as far as we saw the steering column is very in front- increases steering tie rod angle - it can cause bad Ackerman angle when the wheels turns. I think it can lead to a handling deterioration maybe someone has solved the this problem and try drive? i solved but i drive only 400m (did not experience)