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Pedal box/footwell width
interestedparty - 9/6/02 at 10:16 AM

In order to get the engine (in my case Rover V8) as far back as possible the footwell width needs to be as narrow as possible, due to width of the bellhousing increasing as the engine is moved back. Up til now I have been allowing for an overall width (including the width of the vertical H tubes) of 330mm. If I reduced this on the driver's side to 300mm then I could get the engine at least 40mm further back. That would be a good thing. The question is, is 300mm sufficiently wide to allow satisfactory pedal operation for a majority of drivers?

steve m - 9/6/02 at 10:37 PM

i would have thought that 300mm to put your plates of meat into would be extremley tight
unless you plan to wear ballet shoes. in which case this forum is useless!!

asuming you have 2 feet ! and 3 pedals(what does the one in the middle do??)
i would guess that you would need at least 400mm from side panel to tunnel at the normal pedal position
i say at least because the approx measurement of my car is about 4000mm i have size 7 shoe,s, 2 feet. and 3 pedals and normal driving around town etc is fine, but once you get on the motorway where does you left foot go??, as you legs are straight out in front of you
also with the pedals so close together it is very easy to press two pedals at the same time, and ive done that as well

i have had to adopt some very uncomfortable positions so that my foot does not rest on the clutch (and wear it out) or rest on the brake (and slow me down)
how many other drivers get out of their car
after a long drive, looking like they are pissed or crapped themselves
of course if its a rover v8 automatic you only need 2 peddles and you only need about 260mm, and if youve only got one leg!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i hope this helps
regards

steve

stephen_gusterson - 9/6/02 at 11:34 PM

from memory, i think my footwell is 330mm wide.

there SEEMS to be just about enough room (not on the road yet!) to get your feet in and im a size 9.

On my car, the pedals hang from the top. The 'rest' position for the left food is UNDER the pedals - like tuck it behind em and pull it out when needed - not as silly or unweildly as it sounds.

atb


steve

interestedparty - 10/6/02 at 12:14 AM

Steve M, are you sure your measurements are right? On a book chassis the total distance across the car at that point is 873mm, therefore the distance to midpoint is 436, minus your 400 for the footwell is going to make the transmission tunnel pretty narrow.

Steve Gusterson's point about resting the foot under the pedals sonds good, I will be using overhung pedals too.
John

steve m - 10/6/02 at 05:43 AM

I WILL MEASURE IT LATER TODAY AND GET BACK TO YOU (I AM ON NIGHTS RIGHT NOW)
THE SHOES I NORMAMLY WEAR ARE ON MY FEET RIGHT NOW AND BY JUST MEASURING 3 X SHOES FROM SIDE TO SIDE THE MEASURMENT IS 310MM

ON THE OVER HANG PEDDLE IDEA, THE IDEA OF HAVING YOUR FOOT GO UNDER THE PEDDLE TO ME IS RATHER STARTLING, AS IN AN EMERGENCY OF HAVING TO WHIP THE FOOT OUT DECLUTCH AND BRAKE AT THE SAME TIME SEEMS A BIT ON THE DODGY SIDE
MY PEDDLES DO HANG, BUT AS IVE ONLY GOT SIZE 7 SHOES THE PEDDLE HAS TO BE LOWER TO ADOPT A HEEL ON THE FLOOR AND PAD ON PEDDLE,AS I SAID IN MY FIRST POST, AS YOUR LEGS ARE STRAIGHT OUT IN FRONT OF YOU YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ADOPT A DRIVING POSITION AS IN A NORMAL CAR, I PROMISE THAT IF YOU ARE BUILDING WITH THE IDEA OF YOUR LEGS STAIGHT OUT AND FEET OFF THE FLOOR YOU WOULD LAST 10 MINIUTES AT A TIME DRIVING THE CAR AND AN HOUR RECOVERY TIME, JUST TRY AND SIT IN THE POSITION OF YOUR BUILD SHEDULE AND TRY IT OUT!!!

ALSO MY COMMENTS ARE MADE IN GOOD FAITH AS MY CAR HAS BEEN ON THE ROAD FOR 3 YEARS AND I DO HAVE EXPERIANCE OF DRIVING WITH THE PEDDLES IN THIS POSITION AND IF I HAD MY TIME AGAIN I WOULD HAVE FLOOR MOUNTED PEDALS AND MORE SIDE TO SID SPACE

I WOULD SAY THAT THIS IS PROBABLEY ONE GOOD REASEN THAT THE ONLY V8 LOCOSTS THAT IVE SEEN HAVE BEEN ABOUT A FOOT WIDER THAN MY CAR
(BUILT TO THE BOOK DIMENSIONS)

REGARDS
STEVE

interestedparty - 10/6/02 at 06:51 AM

I look forward to reading your actual measured dimensions, Steve. Which engine/gearbox are you using, and how far forward is it, does any part of the bellhousing fit between the footwells or is it just the gearbox
John

stephen_gusterson - 10/6/02 at 01:40 PM

quote:

ON THE OVER HANG PEDDLE IDEA, THE IDEA OF HAVING YOUR FOOT GO UNDER THE PEDDLE TO ME IS RATHER STARTLING, AS IN AN EMERGENCY OF HAVING TO WHIP THE FOOT OUT DECLUTCH AND BRAKE AT THE SAME TIME SEEMS A BIT ON THE DODGY SIDE



In an emergency brake situation, your primary foot is the right one - move fast from accellerator to brake. As to when you declutch, does that really matter? If you cant brake at maximum unless you have your left foot ready for declutching, there is a serious problem in your braking technique!


I actually only have two feet. That means I need about 200mm to get them in the area near the pedals. The extra bits of dimensions you need is cos there are three pedals - you dont want to be pressing two at a time.

So, your basic problem is how to get three pedal wide space in the car. And not have your feet on two pedals at a time.

A lot of cars have the pedals 'height staggered' so for instance, the brake pedal is higher then the clutch one, relative to the sole of your shoe. This helps pedal location and selection.

I dont see how you will acheive the ideal, as was pointed out earlier, you need 300mm for your feet, and 100mm+ to let your foot go on rest somewhere. thats never gonna happen. A seven is so space restricted there have to be compromises.

One way to get space is to weld your tranny tunnel panels INSIDE the tunnel side of the RHS. I had to do this on my side of the car cos that extra 25mm really does matter - and my car is wider than standard!


I used a granada / sierra assembly with the standard pedal spacing and it fitted my 330mm approx wide well. You will be suprised how close together most car pedals are, and how crap the place to rest your foot can be.

My Jag V12 had virtually no foot space cos of the really wide tunnel in the XJS. Just as well it was a 2 pedal auto!


ATB


Steve


BTW - when you actually get to the stage of fitting pedals gearbox and passeger feet in, you seiously wonder where the space is coming from. And I recon its the clutch foot that loses in the fight for space. Which is why 'under the pedal' is almost inevitable.

David Jenkins - 10/6/02 at 01:49 PM

quote:

...I recon its the clutch foot that loses in the fight for space. Which is why 'under the pedal' is almost inevitable.


I intend to fasten a small bit of angle to the tranny tunnel wall to rest the edge of my foot on, once I know where the pedal will come to rest. I talking about a half- to one inch wide - just enough so I'm not riding the clutch pedal all the time.

With my big feet there's no way I'll be able to tuck my foot under the pedal!

rgds,

Ian Pearson - 10/6/02 at 02:23 PM

I am using a Pinto type 9 etc, and have moved the box as far back as I could. As well as having the tunnel panels on the inside of the tunnel, in the footwell, the transmission tunnel is much wider at the top than the bottom, allowing me to move the gearbox far enough back to do away with the need for an extension. As the peddles are top mounted, there is more width to accommodate them, and it seems to offer enough space.

Regards, Ian.

steve m - 10/6/02 at 09:22 PM

ok then!
for info xflow, rocket box and engine as far back to bulkhead as possible
the chassis is "as per the book"

my measurements across the face of the peddle's is 335 mm from side to side and as stephen g has pointed out that having staggerd heights would be an advantage, mine are not!,
i have also added a piece of alui angle to rest the clutch foot, this has helped.
my next comment will undoubtley get critisism!!
as space is such a premium why not move the peddles further back (towards the seat)
this in turn means the steering wheel needs to go back further, and then you can not reach the gear lever or dashboard swithes!!
another way is (i think similar to the mk chassis) which has a curved side plate on the tunnel which allows the bell housing to resese but still allows a maxiumum width for the peddles
my last words on the subject are
make sure you are happy with the seating arrangments in relation to the peddles, steereing wheel, gear lever and dashboard switches, as once youve finalised your design thats it!!!

steve

stephen_gusterson - 10/6/02 at 09:41 PM

quote:

my measurements across the face of the peddle's is 335 mm from side to side as

snip snip snip...........

space is such a premium why not move the peddles further back (towards the seat)


snip snip snip...........






that makes your footwell just about the same width as mine, and my car was made wider, so I guess yours insnt a standard width?


I found a 'cheat' way of making more leg room.

Tilt the seat a bit. A reclined seating position draws your legs away from the pedals and bends the knees a bit, shortening your legs a little. In my car this gives quite a comfy position with the front seat mounts spaced up about 30mm over the back ones (using std granada seat runners, about 550mm or so between fixings.

Its worth an experiment when you finalise all your positions.

atb

steve

Simon - 11/6/02 at 10:02 AM

Hi Peeps,

Quick suggestion if space is such a premium.

Have two pedals. Right for throttle as usual, left for clutch and brake. First three or four inches of travel for clutch, carry on pressing for brake operation.

Then you can declutch as you brake!

I could be wrong but believe our friends across the pond tried this.

Before anyone has a go at me, this isn't a serious suggestion, unless anyone thinks at will work.

ATB

Simon