Hi,

I have been a serious car enthusiast for some time and read plenty mags/books/forums on the topic. I recently read an article on the MK Indy in a magazine I had lying around and was even more pleased when it claimed you can build one of these things for under £4.5k. I am currently at University studying engineering, have no practical experience on cars apart from a drivers licence (but would be VERY keen) and live at home. I have a few questions if you don't all mind...

How much space do you generally need to make one of these things? It would be a CEC most likely with a Pinto engine.

Can anybody recommend any good books to look at?

How long to build - are we talking years and years? Could you do it in 2 if it was worked on a few times a week/evenings for instance?

Many thanks in advance!

[Edited on 28/12/06 by mark_mcd]

Actually building the car is quite straightforward - you could build it in a couple of weeks if you did nothing else.

The tricky and time consuming bit is reconditioning all the running gear and sourcing all those 'extra' bits that you might want.

£4.5 K is about the lowest you cana build one for but if you are careful it should be possible.

Welcome by the way - and keep us posted on how you get on

Cheers

Mark

I'm currently building in my single garage surrounded by the missus rubbish and I'm getting along ok, so long as you take time and care it's fine.

just remember to plan plan plan, and you'll be fine.

oh and if in doubt ASK!

have fun!

Hi and welcome,

we managed to build our BEC Indy in about a year working weekends and occasional evenings in a single garage (but would have struggled to get an engine crane in our garage for a CEC).


Description


May be worth taking a look at Build Your Own Sportscar - Ron Champion but not really required to build an Indy more use if building a locost.

HTH

Ed

Built mine in a carport, so dry but cold, timescalle as your's some evening, some weekends, took less than 2 years at a relaxed (beered) pace

thanks for the quick replys!

so you could build one in one side of a double garage fairly easily?

is there a lot of tools needed or can anybody recommend a 'kit' of tools that contain most of what is needed? any tips on this?

Hi

I built mine for £5k OTR. If you want to do things on a budget a few good tips are:

1. Buy a donor that is in good shape - a few quid extra on a donor from which all the bits can be used without reconditioning is money well spent. Mine cost £45 after I cashed the tax in and only needed a head gasket. It had done 65k and all the bits are in really good shape.

2. Try to buy the expensive bits [seats, exhausts etc.] secondhand. Lots of Westfield users are upgrading engines so Pinto / CVH bits can be picked up at good prices.

3. Don't get carried away with cosmetic stuff like guages - the standard Sierra clocks work finr and give a lot less trouble at SVA time.


I built mine in 12 months - 1 evening per week and the odd weekend.

Again, keeping the build simple and as standard as poss speeds up the build time no end.

Good luck

Stu

I built mine in a single garage in under 12months,
Including SVA and registering.
So 2 years is definatley possible.
As for books this forum is possibly better than any book..
Good luck,
Steve.

In all seriousness... don't automatically rule out a bike engine - e.g. CBR1000F engine - I've seen them for £300!

For tools, A good set of basic mechanics tools and a good drill and drill bits, a rivet gun and a Rivnut gun would be useful.
Two strong trellis stands. Axle stands and a good jack.
Other suggestions will probably follow.
Steve.

Torque wrench,
Vice (big ish one ie 4-6" ),
Wiring crimper's and associated stuff.
A wide range of sockets and spanners always comes in handy, along with a 38mm socket, IIRC, for the hub nuts.

[Edited on 28/12/06 by DIY Si]

I built mine while still at uni (I also did engineering...) and it took me the best part of 2 years to get it on the road. I went home each holiday, and maybe for a weekend here and there.
Just make sure that the bits you need are waiting for you at home, that way, you shouldn't be waiting around for parts to arrive.

What uni, and what engineering do you do?

And about a good book - get ron champions book - buils a car for £250 (but forget the £250 bit) and also a manual called the car builders manual (both published by haynes I think).

Good luck, and Enjoy

i would LOVE a bike engine but worry about insurance, running costs and their reliability. i'm currently 19 (20 this year). does anyone here have a pinto-e-c? sorry about all the questions - i will browse the forum in much more detail!

how much is insurance on a car like this? would it be a no go?

will look about for a haynes sierra manual! i presume the other one people refer to is this - http://www.haynes.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=11021&langId=-1

About insurance, when I was 22 (in aug) it was £400 odd to insure my Indy Bird, which has in the region of 175 bhp. That was limited to 3,000 a year, and you normally can't use NCB on these type of cars.

[Edited on 28/12/06 by DIY Si]

quote:

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Originally posted by tom_loughlin
I built mine while still at uni (I also did engineering...) and it took me the best part of 2 years to get it on the road. I went home each holiday, and maybe for a weekend here and there.
Just make sure that the bits you need are waiting for you at home, that way, you shouldn't be waiting around for parts to arrive.

What uni, and what engineering do you do?

And about a good book - get ron champions book - buils a car for £250 (but forget the £250 bit) and also a manual called the car builders manual (both published by haynes I think).

Good luck, and Enjoy

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another question that has just popped into my head - will be location act against me i.e. how would i go about getting parts modified by the company? i presume they would ship the kit to me or must i collect?

It really comes down to 'time v money'. If you take your time sourcing parts and are scrupulous, I reckon you could just about build a BEC for the budget you have suggested and within the given time frame. If you would love a bike engine, then it really is worth exceeding your budget (if need be) to obtain one If you didn't, you'd probably end up regretting it and spending more cash to convert to BEC at a later date.

Phil

quote:

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Originally posted by mark_mcd
another question that has just popped into my head - will be location act against me i.e. how would i go about getting parts modified by the company? i presume they would ship the kit to me or must i collect?

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quote:

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Originally posted by mark_mcd
At Aberdeen University doing an Meng. Course is general for the first two years (i.e. bits of everything) before you branch off for the last 3. I hope to do mechanical and work in the automotive indusrty somewhere in the end. What engine did you use in your car? Did you have much previous experience at such a thing or anyone to help?

Mark

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hellfire
It really comes down to 'time v money'. If you take your time sourcing parts and are scrupulous, I reckon you could just about build a BEC for the budget you have suggested and within the given time frame. If you would love a bike engine, then it really is worth exceeding your budget (if need be) to obtain one If you didn't, you'd probably end up regretting it and spending more cash to convert to BEC at a later date.

Phil

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Tools i found really useful.

1.A half Tap & Die set.
2.A small volt meter
3. Vernier Calipers

£4.5k is very achievable. Mine cost just over £5k and i spent over £1.1k on seats, alloys, tyres, dash. Looks nicer but not any better. Apart from the Toyo tyres, they are great.

Che3rs Nige

quote:

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Originally posted by tom_loughlin

quote:

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Originally posted by mark_mcd
At Aberdeen University doing an Meng. Course is general for the first two years (i.e. bits of everything) before you branch off for the last 3. I hope to do mechanical and work in the automotive indusrty somewhere in the end. What engine did you use in your car? Did you have much previous experience at such a thing or anyone to help?

Mark

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I didn't have any help - my dad is a teacher, and not interested in cars, but my best mate helped a lot - we both didnt know mush about cars to start with, but there is no better way of learning.

The best people to help are the people on here - There is no problem you will come across (no matter how stupid your problem is) that someone here hasn't experienced.

I've just finished my M.Eng in engineering - was dsperate to get into automotive design, but the way the british industry is going at the moment - there were simply no jobs.

Do you get the option of a placement sandwich year? I reckon you'd stand a lot better chance of getting an automotive job if you could land yourself a placement - it took me 18months after graduating to get the job I have - and it's still not motorsport - but hopefully a good link into the industry.

All the best

Tom


edit:

Oops forgot to say - my engine is a 2L zetec on bike Throttle bodies - The only corner I cut on the whole build was the engine - as and when I could afford I Replaced the 1.8cvh lump from the sierra with the zetec.

Trust me - whatever engine you go for - however small and however much people discourage you, for a long time, you won't be able to wipe the smile off your face while driving it - so i see it as a perfect upgrade when time/funds allow

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To get it rolling you will need a few bits from the Sierra, front hubs mainly.

As for tools, if you have nothing, get your self a decent quality socket and spanners set, Halfords do some good value ones. Then you will buy tools as and when you need them as you go along.

There are a few things you might want to buy from the beginning as well, such as a vice, riveter, crimping tool for the loom, 41mm socket and a big bar to get those hubnuts off!

Find out if there are any builders near you, I'm sure there are, try and get along to a meet, just because you don't have a car yet doesnt mean you cant go along. When you get to know some people its great as you will find you will be able to borrow specialist tools and be able to get some bargains. And of course you can return the favour when you start building.

Building the car won't help you with your degree, but it will make all your class mates envious, thats what I found anyway!

Have a look at our build diary... best get a go in one of either (BEC vs CEC) then decide which type of engine you would like to opt for. Click on the below image to go there...

Once you have completed your Degree you'll be moving abroad then. That's where most (read: all) Automotive is heading... Good Luck with it.

Steve

well i am in the aberdeen/grampian area. anybody about up here

quote:

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Originally posted by Hellfire

Once you have completed your Degree you'll be moving abroad then. That's where most (read: all) Automotive is heading... Good Luck with it.

Steve

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whats harder to build in peoples opinion? bec or cec?

neither

apart from if your in good shape you can pick the bike engine up yourself

Having had a road registered BEC, I just wouldn't do it again - I'd have something that I could drive to Le Mans and the Nurburgring without going def and getting tinitus.

However, for track days, the BEC takes some beating (I'd suggest that you'd have to spend a LOT on a CEC to stay with most BECs.) Hence, I'm building a BEC track-car.

see this is where it gets confusing for him Id buzz of driving my old car like I did every day

well the performance of the bike engined cars look awesome and i love the idea of the engine being easier to fit. the only thing that would hold me back is cost really. the car would just be used for the occasional blast on some b roads.

what sort of performance does a pinto engine give you? rough 0-60, etc? how much roughly would each car and bike engine weigh kerb weight. i presume either would be a good bit faster than my dads skoda octavia vrs? i appreciate speed isn't everything.

I've got a chipped octy vrs. Pinto a bit faster, based on a robin hood a mates got, bike engine lots faster!!!

I sold my car for the reason of our shite weather 10k sitting in the garage was getting to me

so now Im building another for half that and itll look just as good

zx9r full engine kit 500 quid

forget the pinto unless your on a tight budget which I appreciate

quote:

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Originally posted by zxrlocost
I sold my car for the reason of our shite weather 10k sitting in the garage was getting to me

so now Im building another for half that and itll look just as good

zx9r full engine kit 500 quid

forget the pinto unless your on a tight budget which I appreciate

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you dont get exhaust but you get all other bits to bolt in

youll need a sprocket adpator £50

but yes thats everything

asking questions like the condition of the bike engine is pointless as most have already been took out the bikes

youll just have to be satisfied that when you start it up itll sound great!!!

aim for the 4.5k and youll be ok

if your dead set on a bec you dont have to use the latest engines, theres plenty of slightly older 1000+cc engines out there that will give u more than enough bang for ya buck.

[Edited on 4/1/07 by Taz Surfleet]

how many miles can one expect a bike engine to live? i appreciate a car engine will in most instances easily do 100k+ but do bike engines last even half that? how long for a zx9r in particular

zxrlocost - does mk supply the engine kit you speak of?

hi all kit car comanies can sort you an engine

Id look for one on ebay or give malc a call of here

bec can be built for 4.5k

dont worry about mileage theyll go on long enough for you

Out of interest how driveable do you find the bec compared to cec for normal trips down the road on a weekend...for these is the cec a better bet???

dont know because I liked going to the shop at 12,000rpm

is anyone in the process of building a car with the new chassis i hear of? i presume there is a different version for bec and cec? the website does not seem to tell you much!

quote:

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Originally posted by mark_mcd
is anyone in the process of building a car with the new chassis i hear of? i presume there is a different version for bec and cec? the website does not seem to tell you much!

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ME

quote:

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Originally posted by PAUL FISHER
ME

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I am just in the process of building a MK with the new spec-R chassis,it has a 2006 ZX-10R,turbocharged,there are a few more pictures of the build,to date in my archive.

Me too! Haven't got very far though, floor isn't even on yet. As far as I can tell the differences between BEC and CEC chassis are about the same as they are on the 'old' chassis, with the exception that the bulkhead has to shuffle back a wee bit for a car engine. Mine is upside down at the mo waiting for it's floor, i'll try and remember to take a couple of pics of the engine bay area once it's back the right way up to compare to a BEC chassis

Yours must have been chassis number 6 then,there's the 2 MK demo cars,1 chassis went to Sweden,and there's a guy in Doncaster building the other,and me and you,there's another one being built this month,to be raced in the 750mc,now that the chassis been registered.
The good news is for anyone thinking of building the new spec-R car it is as easy to build as the original MK INDY,although there's a lot more work for MK in the manufacture of the kit.

When I was chatting to Baz when I ordered he said they had about 10 chassis to build before they got to mine, but thinking about it he was probably talking about total orders (indy and spec-R) they had stacked up, not just the new chassis. Number 6 eh? I imagine the other 5 are all going to be BEC as well?

Is there a price for the new chassis yet? Couldn't see it on the website, but probably being a blind git!

The new chassis kit price is +£600,so just add this to either the starter kit price,or the delux kit price.

Ta muchly

so what are the changes over the old setup? is this talk of the camber etc all sorted out?

Is ther much room lost under the bonnet /nosecone compared to the old indy?? can anyone post a pic of each to compare???

This has had the bulkheads moved back about 3 inches. The tunnel area is still a pretty tight fit but there's a bit of space in front of the engine, dont know how useable the space will turn out to be though. I haven't offered up any of the bodywork yet to see how much room there is, but obviously you'll lose a bit of space in the nosecone where the shocks are now.

martyn_16v

Which master cylinder are you using on the new spec-r?

Have you had any fouling problems with it?

Cheers

matt

I did have a problem with the one off my sierra donor, it has a mounting lug coming off the underside which fouls on the lower chassis rail. I had a look at a couple being built up at MK a couple of weeks ago, they had a different sierra m/c to the one I had that fits OK, although there is a fairly tight bend on the front brake line as soon as it leaves the union to clear the chassis rail. I'm using a mk2 golf master cylinder now, I had one kicking about in the garage so I offered it up and it fits much better, the outlets are all pointing upwards and there's 4 of them if you buy a new one. The only thing I do need to do to it is chop down the nose the pedal pushrod fits into, it's a bit on the long side.

Do you know which one MK are using? Is it a willwood or something else?

Also have you got anymore build pics?

[Edited on 29/3/07 by matt.c]

It was a sierra one they use, just not the same one as mine came with. I think i've seen three different master cylinders on sierras so far, two of them look like they'll go on fine, just not mine Never mind, got a shiny new one now and it was cheaper than a recon sierra job.

Build pics here, I think i've got some more recent ones to get around to uploading. Despite working with cameras for a living my pictures are pap though