The family workhorse PC is creaking and needs replacing.
I've spent the last 20 years building playing and maintaining Microsoft and PC hardware, so am fairly clued up.
I'll still have access to a.nother PC and laptip but this is the one that gets most use.
It's used for everything, Internat, mail, family pictures a few games, Office, online casino, music, video you name it, though nothing too
cutting edge, but nothing too paid for either ;-)
We quite fancy a change to an iMac, for interest and education and that they look great
The question is:
Assuming I take the plunge and learn to use it,
How long, or will there be something I will find that it won't do that a PC will?
Never if you use bootcamp and install windows on a separate partition! However, I've used Macs for years and never missed anything and have never bothered with bootcamp!
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
How long, or will there be something I will find that it won't do that a PC will?
Go Mac - never look back.
27 incher all the way.
/that is all
quote:
Originally posted by yellowcab
Go Mac - never look back.
27 incher all the way.
/that is all
You must be clue'd up if you can use a " laptip "
quote:
Originally posted by deltron63
You must be clue'd up if you can use a " laptip "
quote:
Originally posted by JC
Never if you use bootcamp and install windows on a separate partition! However, I've used Macs for years and never missed anything and have never bothered with bootcamp!
It'll drive your family nuts until they get the hang of it, but stick with it and you'll never go back to a PC!
I have a 27 inch iMac and wouldn't go back.
I actually have a PC with it's monitor sitting on the same desk. I use it to run some lighting software that is only PC (not duel booted the mac
can't see the point)
How many have had a mac and swapped to PC? Not many I bet. I can't see me swapping back any time soon.
It just runs, it's on all the time and doesn't slow down for anything. Superb. Getting used to the file system was the only thing I
couldn't get my head around at first but apart from that....
You can even get auto cad for the mac now.
If you actually enjoy faffing with the inner workings, repairing when they go wrong, fighting viruses and figuring out why your printer/scanner /phone
etc software won't talk to your computer probably better stick with a PC.....
On the other hand if you just want something that works out of the box, never goes wrong, and just does what it should
then in the spirit of your post title.....MAC MAC MAC MAC
Al 
I've never uses a Mac, so can't comment on that. But I gave up on Windows years ago. I switched to Ubuntu and so far have found only ONE bit
of hardware that wouldn't work (a USB printer switch that I didn't need in the end). Ubuntu costs zero, and its very forgiving on older
PC's. Infact all my PC's are old cast offs from people who ran windows and they 'died'. A fresh install of Ubuntu has them running
better than new.
So my advice, before spending loads of money, you have already consigned the PC to the bin, why not install Ubuntu, give it a run for a couple of
months, then decide what to buy with the money you've saved.
Like you I have been a PC/Windows guy, building, repairing etc for years.
Recently wanted to try a mac, with the plan to bootcamp it for anything i might need on the windows platform.
My shiney macbook pro 15" arrived 3 weeks ago and i can thoroughly recommend it... everything just works and its easy.
Only used bootcamp partition for OBDII software and MS publisher (as the missus refuses to use swift publisher)
You can get office on the mac, what about publisher?
Yeah they are more reliable but they cost 3 or 4 times more and you can't do lots of stuff. My hp keeps going wrong though so it is all relative
Seems to me that most people that knock the mac have never had one.
Many a mac user is ex PC and wouldn't go back.
I think the best way to sum this up is: if you want a computer get a PC... If you want a Mac then get a mac
Hi I've been using a mac for years now got a second hand mac book pro 17ins and would never go back to a pc had 5 or 6 of them and they all went wrong......MAC
Get a mac, but buy refurbished direct from apple - you get a better warranty than a standard new one and I've never had a problem:
http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/specialdeals/mac
It is true that you pay more than the minimum you would for a windows PC by a factor of 3, but if you compare to a comparable hardware specification
of say dell / sony you won't be buying the cheapest range, but close to the top range - say £800 for the microsoft machine vs say £1000 for the
mac. Don't go too mad for extra memory unless you are doing HD video editing or something very memory intensive all the time, (or intend to run
windows a lot), you don't need it. If you want more add it later from crucial or kingston as its much cheaper. To see how to get into the cases
of most apple kit go to the www.ifixit.com site. some are much easier than you might think to upgrade ram/hdd. You also get the full software disk,
whereas you oftem find you don't with a microsoft machine. OS version upgrades are comparable to windows ultimate and cost about £40. Your mac
will still have some resale value when its old - I recently sold my 6 year old G4 laptop with non working screen and damaged case for £150.
I strongly recommend that you buy the oreilly book "OSX the missing manual" for the version of OSX you buy. You get loads of useful stuff on
how to do things in there. If you want to know how thing work before lashing out on the computer buy the book first and read it.
You can get an osx specific port of openoffice, or neooffice so you don't want to pay for ms office. You do get a nagging worry that something
wont be compatible with microsoft office if you do, the same way you do on linux/a pc.
I worried about not having windows for a while and installed XP/vista/7 on a partition, but can't remember ever using it except for megasquirt
set up.
I'm not sure what the comment " if you want a computer get a PC... If you want a Mac then get a mac" means - they are both computers,
the difference is that with a mac you use it to do something rather than the computer itself being the thing you do, if you get my drift.
If you want to get into the OS, you can go in via a terminal/console window and get into the guts exactly as you can in linux, so if you have that
level of knowlege you can install many linux packages.
Regards
Hugh
i have been a pc user all my life. about 6months ago i got a mac book air as the price was right and i wanted something extremely light small and
powerful (i7 processor lots of ram ssd hdd etc)
i also have a win7 desktop pc, laptop running xp and a netbook running ubuntu. recently i found when i need to use a computer the first thing i
pick-up is the mac.
don't get me wrong it took me a while to get used to it but i stuck with it rather than boot camping it. little things like you cant cut and
paste. you can either copy and paste or drag and drop if you want to move a file into a different folder. but other than little niggles like that to
begin with i wouldn't change it for any other device.
as for cost well its subjective, apple do use very good hardware in their machines, and to build a pc using stuff made by the same manufacturers would
cost almost as much.
i am now at the point where if i were to replace my desktop pc i wouldn't even hesitate and just buy a mac. I love that i get the friendly just
work GUI (easy like windows) but when i want to get clever i can open a terminal window and feel like i am working on my ubuntu box in flat out
unix
[Edited on 28/6/2012 by ashg]
quote:
Originally posted by VinceGledhill
Seems to me that most people that knock the mac have never had one.
Many a mac user is ex PC and wouldn't go back.
actually i think the opposite mike
mac's are for the general user and the hardcore user but dont really fit the intermediate users.
e.g users that know their way round a pc pretty well but are not what i would call an expert. un-fortunately the mass majority of people working in
the IT industry i would class as intermediate users, i would even go as far as saying some of these people would claim themselves as professionals are
not any more than than self made up intermediate users.
if my mac wont do what i want it to do in the gui (not that it happens, unless im fiddling) i would open a terminal window and do it at the command
prompt if that didn't work then i would code it. lots of people don't realise, just because it doesn't have a pretty click box
doesn't mean you cant do it another way.
i am currently working on a project to port a couple of windows developed apps into a Linux environment which requires getting .net 4.0 into linux.
currently they run on a windows virtual machine installed on linux, if i can make them work without the vm then we can reduce the hardware specs
ultimately saving money on hardware for over 1000 devices, meaning more profit.
sorry
back on topic
i vote buy a MAC
Lots of good points have been made here, and here area few more to consider
user experience
Firstly, aple spend untold millions on product design and the user experience, and it itterly shows when you use it. The product out of the box is
great. the software you get with it is stupendous. the consistent use of gestures in all the software is great - little things like in a browser,
flicking three fingers on the (large) trackpad left moves you back. The same gesture in iPhoto scrolls you back through your photos. Little things
like dragging text off an app and dropping it on to the desktop automatically creates a text file with that in. When in system prefs, each trackpad
gesture comes with a constantly playing video shwing you how to use the gesture and what the difference is, etc.
If you have a laptop, closing the lid instantly puts it to sleep, opening the lid instantly brings it back - apple had this in the design from the
very get go. Look at the little things like the chassis is really thin, and there are no crappy clips to hold the lid closed - it's done
magnetically.
service and support
You get a year's warranty, and 3 months support when you can call someone up to help you with your transition - it's just in the price.
Noone else I know does this. You can extend the warranty out on an annual or more basis.
If you get an issue, you just go to the website and book an appointment at an apple store to get someone to fix it. If it's under warranty they
do it *there and then*. All the stores have people there who are trained and qualified to take these to pieces and fix them for you.
windows compatability
I don't use boot-camp but do use vmware when i have to access a windows 7 machine. The machine only consumes 30G, and I have several centos
virtual machines in there as well. You can do really useful stuff like copy from an progrram in windows and just flick to a osx programme and paste
the text in. If you want to, you can run your windows programs as if they are mac ones in a mac window - no-one would need to see your shame.
build quality
Just go and look at the quality of the monitors, the thinness of the keyboard, the fact that when the keyboard starts to run out of battery, the
subtle icon on the screen tells you.
the list just goes on and on and on. And yes, if you tried to spec an i7 quad-core laptop with a retina display, 8G of ram and an SSD anywhere else,
you'd struggle to even meet apple's price, yet get under it.
Just a note from earlier to copy use COMMAND-C to paste COMMAND-V and to cut COMMAND-X, (command is the key with the funny square with a circle at
each corner) rather than CONTROL-C etc as on windows.
The O'reilly 'missing manual' thing gives loads of tips like these where windows and osx are different. I like the way you can select
for a second screen to be either a 'mirror' or a 'continuation' of your main one for a laptop, and that works for everything. I
means if you give a powerpoint presentation using a projector everyone sees the powerpoint on your projector, but on the laptop screen you can have
additional notes, browse for things without everyone seeing all the stuff on your computer etc. For photo editing you can have the overview on one
screen, and a tiny bit blown up on another which is good. On a windows machine what you can do is very dependant on the application.
Regards
Hugh
Just hope that the 2 or 3 pre-set mac specs fit you in some way. The only reason they are reliable is because the people who make the software, also
make the hardware.
It seems the only people who can justify the high price are people who use it for graphic design in professional businesses. But paying that much for
a home computer that may run a web browser or a word processor. How about an Imac? We have one in our loft 
Oh and every device sold in the EU has to by law have a 1 year warranty.
Thanks for thereplys guys
Sorry I've not followed up sooner, was a bit busy with this......
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=171885
It was tricky and I ws really trying to avoid this getting to a MAC vs PC / BEC vs CEC debate.
Moreso that I am quite sold on the idea of a MAC, for a change, but just cautious that beyond the things it does, without any fuss, there are things
that I might do, that it does'nt, not even a little bit !
However, the re-assurance that Bootcamp would take thse worries away, and I have XP say as a back up is quite something so I think I'm going to
tkae the plunge.
So looking for a 27"
I have the option of my daughter putchasing and getting Education discount of 8?%, els buy from Joh=hn Lewis for a 2 year guatrantee.
Any other bargain buys new?
My brother had a few problems playing minecraft on a mac if that will be a problem?
As someone posted earlier, my vote is the refurbished store! I have bought 2 iPads, a MacBook and an airport express that way. They are as new
condition with the same or better warranty, and a decent saving as well! Either that, or find a friend in the US!
In case you don't know, the refurbished store,is accessed by a small link at the bottom left of the main apple store page!
Good luck with the Mac, you'll love it!
quote:
Originally posted by JC
As someone posted earlier, my vote is the refurbished store! I have bought 2 iPads, a MacBook and an airport express that way. They are as new condition with the same or better warranty, and a decent saving as well! Either that, or find a friend in the US!
In case you don't know, the refurbished store,is accessed by a small link at the bottom left of the main apple store page!
Good luck with the Mac, you'll love it!
I swapped from using bootcamp to vmware, much better experience for when you need Windows for just basic tasks but you need to plan for the extra memory for this at purchase or as an upgrade.
is there aminimum ram that vm ware needs then or is it that windows really needs better than 4g?
vmware provides a shim if you like, allowing a lot of the windows overhead to be passed through to the mac. As such, a lot of effort necessarily to
run a machine is already being done by the mac.
I run a windows XP (cad software), CENTOS (software development) and a windows 7 machine (self flagellation) and they don't consume many
resources - right now the XP machine is consuming 8G of disk and VMWare under 3G of ram. I have the 27" apple monitor that has a bajillion
pixels. It has a virtual display driver so the XP machine also sees far more pixels than it ever could natively - great for CAD.
The machine runs well because I have allocated 2.5G of ram to the cad software - if I wanted to, I could ramp it right down. The performance may
suffer, but the point is you can do this with VMWare. My unix box has a very small memory footprint because i use ssh -X to open windows on it, if you
like the windows are hosted by the mac, not the unix box, again keeping the overhead down.
go on, get one. you won't need another machine. I also believe you will gain the ability to talk to animals and will live to well over 150.
It depends a bit on how much stuff you like to keep open. I found having 3GB to be very marginal in allowing me to swap between Mac/Windows apps
without slowdown. It was fine if you suspended Windows before swapping back to mac apps but that is not exactly convenient or quick. I ended up
upgrading to 10GB to solve this and allow me to also run Linux.
I would say just get 8GB but Apple will no doubt burn you bad for this, think I would be looking at what the price is of 4GB and then keeping budget
for a 4GB to 8GB aftermarket upgrade.
Iirc, ram on the mbp is soldered on at birth, and there's no option to fiddle. Best to be sure there's an after market route for the iMac. When I got my mbp I went for 8. With 8g, flipping between vms is instantaneous and painless. I didn't reuse there was a 4g world out there
The ram on a mac is not soldered on at birth (at least not on any desktop or laptop in the last 10 years).You can buy crucial or kingston ram that is
the same as apple use.
To upgrade the ram on a 27 inch imac follow this guide
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing-iMac-Intel-27-Inch-EMC-2429-RAM/7570/1
Although I would have thought you could undo 3 screws without it!
A 16GB kit for a quad core imac direct from crucial is 122.39, but it's usually 10% or so cheaper if you buy from PCworld.
If you order from www.crucial.com and follow the select manufacturer etc, don't forget to switch top UK first!
ETA
I usually find its best to look on both kingston and crucial and take the cheapest on the day. If you want to save more you can get the
'generic' modules from both manufacturers with the same spec. The only difference is apple insists on additional testing for the modules it
accepts.
Regards
Hugh
[Edited on 1/7/12 by hughpinder]
Well you lot better be right!
newmacdonaldhadafarm
I know, should have bought a new hall carpet instead, but hey!
I may be gone some time................................................
that box doesn't look 27inches to me... is it?
ReMan - congratulations, welcome to the dark side.
quote:
Originally posted by yellowcab
that box doesn't look 27inches to me... is it?