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Westfield in the news
jos - 29/10/07 at 07:44 PM

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-5877942263554216 150&hl=en-GB

[Edited on 29/10/07 by jos]

worX - 29/10/07 at 07:56 PM

Cleaner cLars... Wicked...

Steve

stevec - 29/10/07 at 08:03 PM

Two words, "F**k Brussels"

smart51 - 29/10/07 at 08:09 PM

That's why you need to dump your pinto and get a BEC. Lower fuel consumption. Oh, and faster too.

BenB - 29/10/07 at 08:12 PM

It's so silly!!!! One cow has the same impact on the environment as the average 4*4.... What next, catalytic converters for cows?

I reckon if you got all the miles done by every Westfield in the country it wouldn't amount to even 5-6 cows

Stupid....

Dangle_kt - 29/10/07 at 08:13 PM

must have been a quiet day in the news room that week!

10 mins on that! WOW!

interesting stuff, but I doubt it will have a major impact IMO. small kit car manufacturers dont make enough cars of each model for type approval, so surely a similar rule of limited numbers will help here too... each car is relitivley unique so CO2 will have a similar disperate range.

Guinness - 29/10/07 at 08:13 PM

Balanced reporting, my arse.

Where was the bit on the electric Indy?

Mike

blakep82 - 29/10/07 at 08:20 PM

think a tory government is needed if that MP is anything to go by...

that Glynnis woman was just asking for a slap

blakep82 - 29/10/07 at 08:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by BenB
It's so silly!!!! One cow has the same impact on the environment as the average 4*4.... What next, catalytic converters for cows?

I reckon if you got all the miles done by every Westfield in the country it wouldn't amount to even 5-6 cows

Stupid....


and isn't it something like 1 volcano erruption emits more co2 than any human activity ever has? why not start banning volcanos? and breathing. if everyone stopped breathing, we'd all be better off.

designer - 29/10/07 at 08:28 PM

But this might stop small companies selling turn-key cars.

thepest - 29/10/07 at 08:43 PM

I wonder,how will this effect the SVA testing....

Jimbob - 29/10/07 at 08:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by stevec
Two words, "F**k Brussels"


^^^ i agree

damien - 29/10/07 at 08:47 PM

carbon this and carbon that....
the only carbon im intrested in is carbon fibre

nathanharris1987 - 29/10/07 at 08:48 PM

global warming? anything to do with the fact we're still coming out of an ice age?

We all know that carbon footprints in their calculation dont cover the "hidden costs" behind an individual's or companys undertakings. It's probably one of the hardest things to do... quantify what we take from around us, right now our beady eyes are soaking up the energy our computor screens are producing and talking about whats "green".

stevec - 29/10/07 at 08:57 PM

What about the carbon footprint from all the lighting to make the ugly bint in the report look good

blakep82 - 29/10/07 at 08:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by stevec
What about the carbon footprint from all the lighting to make the ugly bint in the report look good


she SURE was

flange nut - 29/10/07 at 09:30 PM

quote:
if everyone stopped breathing, we'd all be better off.


No, we would be better off if all the MPs and MEPs stopped breathing.

MikeR - 29/10/07 at 09:35 PM

if you don't believe the climate is changing, you've heard we're still coming out of the ice age / the world is flat / cows emit more CO2 than humans then ....

go read the new scientist. They did a thing a little while ago on the 20 myths of climate change. Every excuse i've heard for it not existing was debunked in a very reasoned and scientific way.

Dangle_kt - 29/10/07 at 10:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
if you don't believe the climate is changing, you've heard we're still coming out of the ice age / the world is flat / cows emit more CO2 than humans then ....

go read the new scientist. They did a thing a little while ago on the 20 myths of climate change. Every excuse i've heard for it not existing was debunked in a very reasoned and scientific way.


I agree, however I do not think that targetting all car manufactures (including kit cars which get very limited use) is the best place to start.

Surley the 80/20 rule applies here, target the big boys and worry about tiny issues later?

We still get a large chunk of our electricity from coal/gas fired power stations in this country when better options (environmentally speaking) are available, but becuase nuclear power will loose votes few politicians have the balls to make THAT call, so they will medle elsewhere.

[Edited on 29/10/07 by Dangle_kt]

RK - 29/10/07 at 11:56 PM

So a cat has to be put on. So what?

Simon - 30/10/07 at 01:25 AM

I'm not convinced the climate is changing. Until recently it was called global warming, now it's climate change. So does that mean it's getting cooler, getting warmer, weather patterns are changing. What exactly.

500 years ago, the Thames froze over regularly. A 1000 years ago, it was so warm in this country wine grapes were a very common crop.

The earth is always changing, but we are the onlybeings to have noticed, and some think it might be our fault.

Those "some" are the people in, say the US, where the budget for "climate change" has gone from a couple of million dollars 20 years ago, to iro $2.5 billion/year now. If you're a scientist, seems like a very good business to be in at the moment.

Don't get me wrong, having read Alan Weisman's book (The World Without Us), the human race really is effing up this planet, with the dumping of plastics, nuclear waste and numerous other toxins - most of which will be around for a very very long time. I do do my bit and recycle cans, paper, plastics (at my own expense in addition to usual council collected rubbish), glass and "green" waste.

But, if the government/local authority start taxing me (ie by taking my rubbish away by weight), they'll be taking a lightweight bag of ash away every week. At least my "carbon footprint" (said with contempt) will be instant rather than delayed via decomposition etc).

I didn't watch the vid for more than a minute, because a) Brussels is for the most part, unelected, b) is corrupt, and c) I found her voice incredibly irritating.

Oh yeah, they'll probably try and close my business down at some point, because there is two things that are expected to far outlast the human race. One is the plastic bag, the other being bronze artwork!

ATB

Simon

RK - 30/10/07 at 03:13 AM

All I asked about was whether a catalytic converter would really be all that bad. I don't care what people think about the planet.

smart51 - 30/10/07 at 08:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Simon
I'm not convinced the climate is changing. Until recently it was called global warming, now it's climate change. So does that mean it's getting cooler, getting warmer, weather patterns are changing. What exactly.
Simon


They've changed the name so it must be untrue

quote:
Originally posted by Simon
500 years ago, the Thames froze over regularly. A 1000 years ago, it was so warm in this country wine grapes were a very common crop.


No. The Thames never froze regularly. Even if it did, the fact that it doesn't now means that it must be warmer, right? Grapes were not a common crop in the UK 1000 years ago. The climate didn't change that frequently. Data shows it has been stable for the last few thousand years save for one really cold spell when the thames did freeze and the last 150 years or so. What CET data shows is that since 1988 the temperature has risen steadily and quite differently to the previous 300 years. It is quite evident that the climate is changing. The only possible dibate is why, not if.

smart51 - 30/10/07 at 08:32 AM

quote:
Originally posted by RK
So a cat has to be put on. So what?


How with that help the planet? Catalytic converters make CO2 out of CO, Hydrocarbons and soot. They also drive up fuel consumption by restricting the engine's gas flow, causing the driver to put their foot down further to make the required power. They make exhaust gasses "cleaner" don't think they make less pollution though.

fesycresy - 30/10/07 at 08:51 AM

Perhaps they should channel their energies into altering the minds of the Americans and Chinese ?

bigrich - 30/10/07 at 09:15 AM

i have always thought that the need for cats was driven by government spin, as has been said they increase co2 emmissions and fuel consumption by the conversion that takes place in them and the fuelling requirements they need to work correctly.
pretty sure the leanburn technology that was about at the same time would have saved more fuel and lessened emmissions.

blakep82 - 30/10/07 at 09:43 AM

i wonder how long it will be before they start targeting fizzy drinks companies, just think of all that lovely CO2 thats released when you open a bottle!



its all lies, aimed at increasing taxes eventually (fuel tax, road tax, bin collections, air travel tax...)

blakep82 - 30/10/07 at 09:52 AM

quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
500 years ago, the Thames froze over regularly. A 1000 years ago, it was so warm in this country wine grapes were a very common crop.


No. The Thames never froze regularly. Even if it did, the fact that it doesn't now means that it must be warmer, right? Grapes were not a common crop in the UK 1000 years ago. The climate didn't change that frequently. Data shows it has been stable for the last few thousand years save for one really cold spell when the thames did freeze and the last 150 years or so. What CET data shows is that since 1988 the temperature has risen steadily and quite differently to the previous 300 years. It is quite evident that the climate is changing. The only possible dibate is why, not if.


Between 1400 and the nineteenth century there were a total of 23 documented winters in which the Thames froze over at London (or 25 if you include "more or less frozen over" years which are shown in parentheses): 1408, 1435, 1506, 1514, 1537, 1565, 1595, 1608, 1621, 1635, 1649, 1655, 1663, 1666, 1677, 1684, 1695, 1709, 1716, 1740, (1768), 1776, (1785), 1795 and 1814.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frost_fair

fairly regular i'd say.

it goes on to say about climates growing milder around 1814, in the throws of the industrial revolution i think (?) but i doubt the fuel being burned then would be enough to make a difference.

I think the changes in temperature are normal changes for the planet.

anyone remember 'El Nino' a few years back? extreme weather patterns, its all a cycle, we're back to that again, give it 7 years and everything will be back to normal

RK - 30/10/07 at 12:10 PM

Well, maybe the cat isn't such a good idea. I'm sure they'll work around it. Just as you did when SVA came in.

My own thinking has been that although we are building cars, we can only drive one at a time, usually only in good weather, and a small, light 7 copy won't burn a lot or fuel most of the time.

nathanharris1987 - 30/10/07 at 10:13 PM

quote:

if you don't believe the climate is changing, you've heard we're still coming out of the ice age / the world is flat / cows emit more CO2 than humans then ....


im not saying the world isnt warming up what im saying is that humans have a relatively small part to play. and anyway, just because the scientists put it in print doesnt mean that their assumptions are right either.

Dangle_kt... nuclear energy isnt much more environmentally friendly than coal fired stations. The energy transfer is by far the most efficient, but when you take into consideration the labour intensive processes that it takes to extract uranium ore and the lifetime of activites that happen after a nuclear station is decomissioned, it aint really worth it.

It will be interesting however to see whats happening on the nuclear fusion front as thats recently been given the go ahead hasnt it?

Simon - 31/10/07 at 12:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by smart51
No. The Thames never froze regularly. Even if it did


No - even if it did.

What kind of argument is that.

Rather than rereading Weismans book in an evening, I thought I'd google, and came up with this:

"River Thames Frost Fairs

The worst cold spells in Britain occurred between 1550 and 1750. The climate during this time was known as the Little Ice Age, when winters were so cold that the Thames froze over each year. It was not uncommon for the freeze to last over three months, as in the case of the winters of 1683 - 1684 and 1715 - 1716.

The first recorded Frost Fair was held on the frozen river Thames in London in 1608. It had tents, sideshows, food stalls and even included ice bowling!

The Thames had frozen over several times before 1608. In the 16th century, Henry VIII is said to have traveled all the way from central London to Greenwich by sleigh along the river during the winter of 1536 and Elizabeth I took walks on the ice during the winter of 1564.

From http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/london/thames.htm

I'd sugest that human population, not just it's activities are a major factor. Eg page 271 of said book:

"Worldwide, every four days the human population rises by 1 million."

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth

That's a lot of co2

The average adult at rest inhales and exhales something like 7 or 8 liters (about one-fourth of a cubic foot) of air per minute. That totals something like 11,000 liters of air (388 cubic feet) in a day.
The air that is inhaled is about 20-percent oxygen, and the air that is exhaled is about 15-percent oxygen, so about 5-percent of the volume of air is consumed in each breath and converted to carbon dioxide.

http://www.answerbag.co.uk/q_view/314680

Like I said, I'm not going to reread a book for the sake of a dispute, but if you'd like to come up with a reference that says wine grapes weren't a major crop, then do so, rather than just saying so.

Simon

[Edited on 31/10/07 by Simon]

[Edited on 31/10/07 by Simon]