Nightkid
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 posted on 15/12/04 at 12:04 AM |
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Building your own chassis
Hi everyone
I'm new to this Locost scene and as well new to the kit car scene; I only came across the idea of building a locost 2 weeks ago! Anyway I been
doing a lot of research before my build start date first thing next year and now debating whether to build my own chassis or buy one. I am having
professional tuition on welding so I reckon I can build my own chassis but really depends on the law/cost. I checked out both options and have a few
questions:
• I have been told because of some recent new law from the SVA, you can’t build your own chassis unless from a qualify builder/welder. Is this true?
What’s the law and process regarding amateur built chassis?
• There are so many seven replica chassis manufacturers out there I really don’t know what the differences are. I assume some chassis are better
suited for different donor car parts than others. Anyone explain to me about the major chassis out there and there specs/price?
• I’m thinking of having an IRS unlike the book design so I assume the mk2 escort rear axle is out of the question, but which donor car(s) have
independent axle and diff I can use instead?
• How long did it take to build your Locost? I like to get in SVAed by the end of July so 7months but even with 3 other guys help I think I’m being
too optimistic!
Thanks in advance everyone for any help you can offer.
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scoobyis2cool
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 12:42 AM |
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Hi, welcome to the forum!
As for your questions, here goes:
1) I haven't heard of that law myself, but the best thing would be to check VOSA (or is it DVLA? can't remember...). They will be able to
tell you for sure
2) I think the majority of chassis' are really pretty similar, with the odd minor difference. Everyone will have a different opinion on which is
best, i built an MK car and was impressed with the standard of welding and construction. I have also visited mac1 a couple of times and their kit
looks impressive too, and customer service is excellent. I suggest talking to (and visiting if possible) a few manufacturers, and asking plenty of
questions.
If you decide to make your own chassis be aware that there are some mistakes in Ron Champion's book, a lot of people use the McSorley plans
which correct these errors.
3) The most popular donor car is the Ford Sierra due to the fact that they are readily available and cheap, but people build cars based on all sorts
of cars. Personally I would suggest keeping your first build as simple as possible, you can always make another one afterwards!
4) My car took me just over a year to build, although I was away at university for a fair amount of this time. If I did another one I could definitely
build it much faster because I'd know what I was doing this time round! Be aware that if you plan to make your own chassis and body panels this
could drastically increase the time it takes. Then again, you can save yourself a fair bit of money this way, so it's up to you to weigh up the
pros and cons
Hope that helps, I'm sure others will have plenty of suggestions. Good luck with the build whatever you decide!
Pete
[Edited on 15/12/04 by scoobyis2cool]
It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care...
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Alfalfameister
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 01:03 AM |
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Don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but this topic looks like the best topic for me to post questions, too. 
Before building the chassis, especially when following the book/McSorley, should I get the engine first?
I'm thinking of getting a Toyota 4AGE with T50 transmission, and of course, that's different from the book. Therefore, should I get the
engine/tranny first before even building the chassis? (to be sure of measurements/fitting?)
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kb58
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 01:43 AM |
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My advice is, don't rush!! You mention your "build start date first thing next year"... that's two weeks away. This is a
recipe for disaster, rushing into a project of this magnitude. This is the time you need to be going very slow, doing your research, and getting all
the questions out of the way. Jumping in is going to cause endless problems.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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kb58
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 01:44 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Alfalfameister
Don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but this topic looks like the best topic for me to post questions, too.
Before building the chassis, especially when following the book/McSorley, should I get the engine first?
I'm thinking of getting a Toyota 4AGE with T50 transmission, and of course, that's different from the book. Therefore, should I get the
engine/tranny first before even building the chassis? (to be sure of measurements/fitting?)
I'd vote "Yes" unless someone here can tell you they've used that engine and it'll fit not problem.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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britishtrident
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 08:39 AM |
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Cheaper to buy a chassis ---- most these days use Sierra based suspension either IRS or de Dion.
If starting again I would use a de Dion kit from GTS, this can also be fitted to a book style chassis without undue hassle.
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splitrivet
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 10:00 AM |
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If you went with the Mcsorley chassis you shouldnt have any problems as Pete says the book is full of errors as most of us here have found out to our
cost ,time wise that is.
I'd definately get your engine/tranny first It'll save you so much hassle later.
As for buying your chassis I suppose it depends on you,whether you want to say I built the lot myself or I put it all together at the end of your
build.
If it was me again I'd have built the chassis and bought the suspension bits.
The good thing nowadays is theres this forum where youll get a wealth of knowledge/help from blokes who've been there .
Cheers,
Bob
I used to be a Werewolf but I'm alright nowwoooooooooooooo
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Sven
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 10:15 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kb58
I'd vote "Yes" unless someone here can tell you they've used that engine and it'll fit not problem.
I have a 4AGE and a T50 and it will fit in a book chassis, but ... to fit the motor, transmission and rear end from the same donor (mid-80's
Corolla) the transmission tunnel will need modifications specifically to clear the bellhousing and the pinion.
Ideally, I would obtain the motor, transmission, rear axle, uprights and steering components before you go any further than laying out the frame on
your sheet of MDF.
All in all, though, you've chosen well in terms of donor parts.
-Steve
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Alfalfameister
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 10:19 AM |
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quote:
Cheaper to buy a chassis ---- most these days use Sierra based suspension either IRS or de Dion.
Was looking at Indy (MK Engineering) or the GTS, and some others, really. But those aren't options for me because I'm in Manila,
Philippines.
Shipping rates would kill me... but what's interesting is that, aside from Book/McSorley and loads of stuff from Cymtrik, GTS also sells plans
that Darren George has "re-specified".
Actually, I don't plan to weld the chassis myself, as labor here in the Philippines is very cheap (I can probably pay a welder (labor only)
about US$8-9/day for his services).
If I were in UK (or even US and earning in dollars -- you have to remember that minimum wage in my country is US$5/day), I'd probably order from
MK or GTS in (or better yet, order the GT-R from MK!)
quote:
I'd definately get your engine/tranny first It'll save you so much hassle later
Yeah, I think that's the way to go...
quote:
The good thing nowadays is theres this forum where youll get a wealth of knowledge/help from blokes who've been there
As someone has said, all the loonies making their own cars are in this forum -- well, I'm glad to be one of the loonies now! Now I need you
loonier people to help a newbie loony here...
EDIT: (Add'l stuff)
quote:
I have a 4AGE and a T50 and it will fit in a book chassis, but ... to fit the motor, transmission and rear end from the same donor (mid-80's
Corolla) the transmission tunnel will need modifications specifically to clear the bellhousing and the pinion.
Okay... here's my problem: I actually don't have a donor car... (Forum moderators, if this doesn't belong here, pls feel free to
move it to appropriate forum -- maybe the RUNNING GEAR forum?)
My question: how do I go about building my Locost -- pretty much from the ground up, without a donor car? Specifically, what would I need to try to
get?
The problem here is that it's actually better to source out individual parts than get a complete donor car. Don't ask me why, but it comes
out cheaper/easier that way.
So far, I have (or reserved anyway) T50 and 4AGE 20Valve silvertop. Now, what axle do I try to get, etc. Was hoping for either an IRS or GTS's
De Dion ("De Dion axle to accept Sierra rear drive and brake components" -- but that is for a Sierra rear drive, and not many Sierras
around where I'm from.
[Edited on 15/12/04 by Alfalfameister]
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Staple balls
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 10:20 AM |
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I think Building or Buying a chassis comes down to a few things
1) are you confident enough in your welding to sit in it while going the wrong (legally) side of a ton?
2) do you have the tools, welder, etc, etc.
3) cost differences all told.
4) do you want to start from the start, or half way through
5) do you want to get the thing made any time soon?
For me, coming from being a pushbike mechanic for a few years, i had a reasonable amount of tools, but nothing big, no powertools, welder, etc.
etc.
so i bought an mk indy starter kit, a few tools and muddled along, buying the tools i needed along the way. I'm now at the point where i own all
the tools i'd've needed to build a chassis.
it's probably cost me more, but this way i know i have a chassis that's up to the job, and that i have someone to blame if it isn't.
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chrisg
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 08:14 PM |
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Was looking at Indy (MK Engineering) or the GTS, and some others, really. But those aren't options for me because I'm in Manila,
Philippines.
Shipping rates would kill me...
MK Ship to the far east for about £250 from memory, not that bad I think.
Call them
cheers
chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
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chrisg
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 08:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Nightkid
I have been told because of some recent new law from the SVA, you can’t build your own chassis unless from a qualify builder/welder. Is this true?
What’s the law and process regarding amateur built chassis?
I've checked today, there is no such law or rule either current or in the pipeline from either the DVLA or the vehicle inspectorate.
Cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 10:51 PM |
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if thats 5 usd minimum wage, the shipping cost is 90 days salary!!!!!!!!!!
atb
steve
quote:
Originally posted by chrisg
Was looking at Indy (MK Engineering) or the GTS, and some others, really. But those aren't options for me because I'm in Manila,
Philippines.
Shipping rates would kill me...
MK Ship to the far east for about £250 from memory, not that bad I think.
Call them
cheers
chris
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kaymar
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 11:08 PM |
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sorry as this post really is to chrisg thanks for taking the trouble to find out and post about the law on home made chassis i was just about to
throw my teddy out the pram cheers mate martin
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Nightkid
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 11:45 PM |
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Cheers everyone for your advice. I was gonna call up DVLA tomorrow myself just to be on the safe side. Has anyone bought a robin hood chassis? was
talking with a couple of lads at work and one of them is convinced you can purchase a chassis only from robin hood for about £200 + VAT. What do you
think? Since it is my first build i was gonna follow the book to be on the safe side. I know i can get all the parts in the book except the engine
is a 1300cc from a local breaker yard, its just the chassis i need to source or build.
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scoobyis2cool
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 12:21 AM |
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Robin Hood are generally regarded to be a bit shoody. From what I've heard their parts rarely fit first time, and their chassis is a bit of a
beast too - built out of VERY big steel tubing.
Pete
It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care...
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Alfalfameister
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 01:17 AM |
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quote:
if thats 5 usd minimum wage, the shipping cost is 90 days salary!!!!!!!!!!
Well, MY salary is considerably more than the minimum wage -- but still, I think considerably less than a regular Brit (or American, for that matter)
would make.
That's why even if shipping were free, a UK$500-600 (no "pound sign" on my keyboard) is still prohibitive... that's why I have
to fabricate my own.
To NIGHTKID: I have ABSOLUTELY no experience in these things, but from trolling these forums for a long time, a chassis from MK, GTS, or Luego all
seem enticing to me...
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krlthms
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 02:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Alfalfameister
Don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but this topic looks like the best topic for me to post questions, too.
Before building the chassis, especially when following the book/McSorley, should I get the engine first?
I'm thinking of getting a Toyota 4AGE with T50 transmission, and of course, that's different from the book. Therefore, should I get the
engine/tranny first before even building the chassis? (to be sure of measurements/fitting?)
Hello Alfa;
I would suggest that you go for a Japanese car as your donor, because they are more likely to be found in your neck of the woods.
Specifically, I suggest an early model RX7. For example this one on ebay in the USA.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4511534265&category=6327
I have only put this URL in so that you see the car I mean, in case they are called something else in your country.
In this forum there are at least one person who have used the RX7 sucessfully (e.g., the axles fit the Locost chassis well). And you can utilze an
amazing amount of parts from this car for your project.
Look at postings by "jestre" in the donor car section a few days ago. He is using an RX7 that he got for $25 US. Although the Toyota
twin cam is a very nice engine, so is the Mazda's. In fact, if you get a donor with a manual transmission, it likely to be a T50 or equivalent,
since Mazda is part owned by Ford. As I was writing this, I googled locost and RX7 and many hits of builds in various stages of completion. So you
can utilize this car in confidence that your build will work.
I was struck by what you wrote that it is cheaper to source individual parts. Are you sure? or are you thinking of the "big" parts; you
can (and you need to) utilize literally hundreds of parts including seats, guages, sreen wipers, lights mirrors, even bits of sheet metal that you can
cut off the body work.
Cheers
KT
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kb58
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 05:48 AM |
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There are a couple "issues" with the Mazda rotary to be aware of. As small as they are they are very heavy. The "crankshaft"
comes out of the engine practically in the center, not at the bottom like most engines. This means the engine and tranny must sit high to give you
ground clearance. It also means the transmission tunnel will probably have to be raised to make room. The exhaust is very, very, hot, and very,
very, loud. It is a pain in the ass to deal with a rotary's exhaust system. And finally they get relatively crappy gas mileage for what they
are. If none of this is an issue with you, great, otherwise I suggest a Japanese 4-cylinder engine.
[Edited on 12/16/04 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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Peteff
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 01:26 PM |
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Old Datsuns?
They all rotted away years ago over here but if there are any left they would be a good proposition for a first build. Something like the old 120Y
would give you an axle and rear wheel drive gearbox and engine and a propshaft you could modify.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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