Dunc
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 posted on 20/11/01 at 06:06 PM |
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Weights and measures.
Chris,
I've been keeping a log book of different aspects of my build. It's sierra based but I'm sure a lot of people might find some of the information
useful. What would be the best way to compile this info into a useful format that people could add to from their own particular build creating a large
database of info. I have simplified drawings and models of all the major components I'm using. This includes rough overall dimensions and mounting
holes for each part. Along with this I have the weights of the components I have used. I can convert the drawings to dxf format which can be read by
most imaging software like paint shop pro etc.
Let me know if anyone would be interested in this information being posted and any information that you think would be useful, ie cost to refurbish
from donor(gasket set for engine, new wheel bearing kits for uprights, etc)
Cheers,
Dunc.
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bedsit
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 posted on 22/11/01 at 12:00 PM |
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Hello Duncan, (and chris)
Me and a mate are about to embark on building the space frame chassis for the locost. We only have the book (build a sports car -Ron Chanmpion) so we
would find dimmession of a frame that would be suited to a pinto engine/ active reqar suspenssion very useful. Could you oblige or send me in the
right direction?
Bernie
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ChrisW
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| posted on 22/11/01 at 09:37 PM |
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How are you planning to present this m8? ie Web or paper?
If you want to do something on the web let me know and I'm sure we can come up with something!
Chris
quote:
What would be the best way to compile this info into a useful format that people could add to from their own particular build creating a large
database of info. I have simplified drawings and models of all the major components I'm using. This includes rough overall dimensions and mounting
holes for each part.
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Dunc
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| posted on 22/11/01 at 11:49 PM |
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All the models I've done so far are on ProEngineer. From the 3d models the drawings are taken and dimensions are added. The files are saved in the
.drw format which ProE uses but it can be saved as .dxf or a number of others. It would be best if it was web based but I'm sure I could send paper
copies to anyone who requests them. I know fek all about creating web pages but I guess some sort of link like with jpg's might be best. Failing that
perhaps the drawings can be presented in a .zip format. The files are not really that large, about 60Kb for each drawing, but it varies on complexity.
It will take me some time to sort them out into some sort of order.
An Excel spreadsheet might be best for the weights and stuff of the other components but I can't think of a way members can update this other than
sending in emails which can be time consuming. What do you think about this Chris. PS. will send off the brackets over the weekend, I'll send you an
email at new address.
Must stress that the measurements I've taken of the components are fairly rough but I've tried to keep crucial dimensions to within a mm or 2. Quite
awkward considering the shape of the gearbox.
Bernie, My chassis has deviated from Ron's book, it is approximately 120mm wider and 50mm taller, but I'll need to confirm that it's been a while
since I read the book. It makes the seating width a fraction over 500mm and allows the fitting of FIA approved seats of that width. Ron's book has
some errors are far as dimensions of chassis members are concerned, especially angles etc while converting from inches to mm's. I cheated a bit with
making the chassis, I made the whole model on a PC then plotted the plan of each side the chassis from a large A0 wide plotter with the changes I'd
made. The two halves were then stuck onto a sheet of mdf which has resulted in a very accurate chassis without man-made errors.
I'm also using a Pinto engine, it fits ok into my chassis on a trial but haven't got to making a bonnet or nosecone yet which is crucial in
determining if the pinto height will cause a problem. A standard nosecone will not fit onto my chassis because of my width change and is worth
remembering if you plan to deviate from the book as well. One wee hint as well, when you have the metal for the chassis, try and find someone with a
cutoff saw or similar. I tried the hacksawing to begin with but the edge was not too square. A cutoff saw will give you a nice square edge and at the
correct angle, you could easily cut and tack a full chassis within a day.
Bernie, what are you planning to use for your donor car? An escort like the book? and what do you mean about active rear suspension, do you mean live
axle as in the book or independant like a sierra? Personnally I'm using the sierra as the donor and fabricating uprights and rear wishbones. The
bearing and brakes simply bolt onto the uprights as if they were made for them. Looked into using aluminium for the wishbone, being lighter and all
that, but suprisingly 19mm round steel tube is lighter for an equivelent deflection in aluminium, which needs to be thicker with 25mm OD. mmmmm,
wonder if I can get my hands on some titanium tube, ultimate! Let me know if you have any more questions Bernie and I'll do my best to answer
them.
Dunc.
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ChrisW
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| posted on 25/11/01 at 01:17 AM |
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quote:
, I'll send you an email at new address.
It's ok m8 - email is sorted now but lost all the mails that were sent in the three days it was down. DNS problem on our server caused it!
quote:
you could easily cut and tack a full chassis within a day.
Using a hacksaw it took me a weekend to get the bulk of the chassis in place
quote:
...sending in emails which can be time consuming. What do you think about this Chris.
I can sort something out in Perl so people can add their own weights to the database. I'll email you about it all.
Chris
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Dunc
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 posted on 25/11/01 at 08:03 PM |
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I went to Stoneleigh in May, great kitcar show and would recommend it for next year, and bought a 9" angle grinder and cutoff stand for it for under
£40. After cutting one chassis member with a hacksaw and seeing how squint I managed to get it I realised I needed something a bit more accurate. On
my MDF plan sheet I screwed extra 1" sqr tube onto it to act as a guide. Calculated exact measurements of angles and lengths and the most efficient
way of getting them out of each six metre length to cut down on extra cutting.
No kidding I had all my chassis members cut accurately within an hour using my new toy. They slotted nicely into my jigged MDF, top first then the
bottom, Aligned the H and FU members then fitted the top in place. Checked for alignment, first time because the top was made from same jig as bottom,
then tacked angular supports in place too, all easily within a day. Didn't even have to miss lunch.
Dunc.
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bedsit
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| posted on 28/11/01 at 01:45 PM |
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Thanks for all the advice, I have quite a learning curve to establish. I was thinking originally of putting an alfa 75 3litre V6 + running gear
(exotic and the loud pedal is very loud)in the car, but then found alot of info about sierra's to try to keep this simple. Apparently the gear box
layout is different in the alfa. The Alfa 33 has a boxer engine which is nice a low.What do you think? I supose the fords are easier and cheaper to
find.
Also, regarding cutting of the RHS I have a 110V hand held 9inch angle grinder. Are there stands available?
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Dunc
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| posted on 29/11/01 at 08:16 PM |
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Bernie,
The boxer engine might fit, and if not you could possibly alter the chassis to make it fit. There is quite a bit of room at the side of a normal
engine and most people seem to have a problem with the bonnet and carbs.
Measure the engine then do a scale drawing of the chassis and engine and see if you'd need to modify the chassis to make it fit, with attention to
what access you need once the engines if situ. I haven't seen an Alfa engine but I'm sure you wouldn't want to remove the engine just to check the
spark plugs. There are ways round this with removable side panels, couple of bolts or something, but this is further down the line. With a little
thought you could fit anything you wanted and still make it look reasonable. I thought about a Jag V12 for about 5 minutes but wheelspinning in the
dry in 5th gear at a standstill wouldn't be very practical.
As for the Grinder stand, I haven't seen any in the usual shops but I'll look out my receipt if I still have it and try and get a telephone
number.
For less than £50 you could get a sierra and use the bits you need off that, steering, hubs etc and still fit the Alfa. Sierra's are good in that
bits are cheap and perfomance parts for the non oily bits are readily available, probably over engineered for use in a 500kg car.
Dunc
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bedsit
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| posted on 30/11/01 at 10:05 AM |
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Ok,good point about picking up the sierra anyway. I 've scanned the papers and auto traders for weeks now. Apart from going to MOT stations to ask
for failiures, do you know a good area to get hold of one.We should be able to modify a rolling chassis at a later stage.
Do you know of anyone, kit car or locost that have used a boxer (VW Alfa Porsch or alike)engine that we could look at?
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Dunc
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| posted on 30/11/01 at 10:50 AM |
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Read somewhere that someone used a Subaru boxer engine in a 7-a-like. Can't remember where I read it though. Heard of plenty of folk using the VW and
porsche but mainly in the rear engine layout. Try going along to a few scrappies with a notepad and measuring tape and looking for an alfa or
porsche.
Just an observation, but aren't Alfa's front wheel drive?
Up here in scotland we have a yellow paper that's sells all sort's of stuff. It's a free ads thing out every wednesday so you get lots of cheap
spares or repair sierra's. It could be worthwhile looking on that. You don't tend to find cars under £500 in ordinary papers or the Autotrader.
Maybe you have a similar thing in Bedford?
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Liam
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 posted on 3/12/01 at 10:04 PM |
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Eh? Bedford?
Cool - I live in kempston - what about you?
I am just starting my Locost - but if you are after simplicity, I'm affraid I can't help My locost will be 4WD, based on a Sierra XR4x4, but with
a Honda V6 from an ex police Rover 827.
If you really want an alfa engine (and just imagine the sound) you can do it. Depending on your skills/facilities, you may just have to get round
some problems with money. One thing I have learnt is that Ron's book is no holy grail, and there is nothing wrong with changing the plans yourself
to fit in whatever you want.
My plan is to tack the outside of the chassis together (because that will be 'as book' whatever gubbins goes inside) then lay the engine/tranny
inside and build the tunnel/footwells/etc round it. That way it will all definately fit - well that's the idea.
Have you looked through an issue of ad trader - full of sierras last time I bought one.
I know [of] a guy who is using an old Subaru L-series turbo boxer in his locost-esque. As well as being nice and low, it is a very light engine too,
just what you want really (says the bloke putting a 2.7 V6 in his car). I don't think he has much to look at yet, though - just starting.
If you want some local inspiration, there is a chap called Paul Dancer around beford who has just finished his car (cortina based). It is quite
amazing what he has achieved for just 1600 quid. It is finished so well that it really is the kind of Locost that pisses off Caterham owners (cos
they paid 5 times as much for the same thing ). I could give you his details...
I wonder if there is anybody else local?
Oh yeah - don't happen to know any small, friendly local engineering shops around beds, do you? Sort of place that would do little one off jobs for
cash (like my bellhousing)?
Cheers,
Liam
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Dunc
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| posted on 4/12/01 at 09:39 AM |
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Hey Guys,
I'm down at Milton Keynes through work every other week, maybe we could meet in Kempston or Bedford for a beer sometime, it's only about 20 mins
away for me. Maybe share ideas and stuff. What do you say?
Dunc.
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Liam
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| posted on 4/12/01 at 05:48 PM |
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Yeah, I'd be up for that...
Maybe we could find some other locals too - I'll perhaps post a message on the Locost yahoo group - what do you recon?
Cheers
Liam
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bedsit
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 posted on 5/12/01 at 10:01 AM |
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Same here chaps, give us an email, it's in my profile. ''the fox and hounds'' on goldington road in bedford?(Big car park for when all locost are
complete!) Saturday Lunch time?
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bedsit
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| posted on 7/12/01 at 11:42 AM |
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Liam, A mate told me about a local Engineering company near Bedford. It's called Bawa Engineering.He took a ten piece job down there. It's by
baywash in fenlake road industrial estate. I planning on getting my RHS cut by them, but I'm not sure on all the chassis measurements. I would like
to make it slightly wider to fit better seats (maybe)..and I want to start with a 2Litre sierra Dohc engine and running gear, so if anyone as these
details or similar, it would really help me out.
Also looked on screwfix.com, they sell alot of FERM power tools made in Holland which look well priced. Also, there was a 7"/9" axle grind stand at
a decent price.
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bob
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| posted on 4/1/02 at 09:59 PM |
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You can get angle grinder stands from screwfix on 0500-414141.
Or at screwfix.com they are £14.99 for the 4/5 inch ginder and £24.99 for the 7 to 9 inch.
I got most of my nuts bolts and rivets from these people they sell all you need and more
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Dunc
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| posted on 19/2/02 at 02:20 PM |
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Found a large list of wheels and there weights at:
http://www.wheelweights.net/
For info only.
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jcduroc
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| posted on 23/4/02 at 10:22 AM |
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Hi Dunc
I just read your post. Did you create the web page or will you e-mail the files to whom is interested? (I am)
Cheers
Joćo
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phil.shelton
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| posted on 23/4/02 at 05:53 PM |
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would also like to se the drawings and info you have tryingto find a escort donor is a pig. Think its got to be sierra donor any ideas for rear
suspension, want to use as much as pos from donor in hope of getting age related plate
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Dunc
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| posted on 24/4/02 at 08:43 AM |
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No I didn't create the website. I'm trying to collate all the info I have on the sierra build and hopefully post it on to this website. Important
stuff like dimensions of the hubs and steering rack, engine mounts and driveshafts and rear running gear. I'm also re-working my drawings, as my
sierra chassis is non-standard, to book 2 dimensions for an escort build for MarkD. I'm trying to recreate the drawings from the book with updated
dimensions, so far I'd say C was ok at 823mm but I've found quite a few errors elsewhere, I'll post an update of the errors I've found between my
drawings and the book.
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jcduroc
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| posted on 24/4/02 at 09:58 AM |
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Hi Dunc thanks for reply.
Could you (or anyone else)just give me (for now) the exact overall dimension between the hub wheel mounting faces of an IRS, disc brake Sierra rear
axle?
Of course a drawing would be better!...
Thanks again
Joćo
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Dunc
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| posted on 24/4/02 at 10:37 AM |
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Don't have a disc brake dimension yet, stripping xr4x4 just now but haven't got to the rear brakes yet, but I can see what I can throw together for
you in the mean time for a drum brake.
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CairB
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| posted on 17/1/06 at 09:44 PM |
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Anyone remember this thread?
[Edited on 17/1/06 by CairB]
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