craig1410
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| posted on 14/3/03 at 08:21 PM |
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Stu,
Thanks and no worries about the delay in getting back, I have plenty of things to think through just now. I'm sure we all go through this stage where
we rush into the project with lots of enthusiasm and not much knowledge only to quickly realise that it's not quite so simple and some thought is
required after all!!
At 120GBP, it's probably on par with getting wishbones made up by someone like MK and it will be much easier to fit to my chassis I think. If they
can supply it in the next couple of weeks at about £120 then problem solved, I'll join the de-dion club!
Can you please confirm what I'm going to need:
1. De-dion beam axle from Dax without brackets
2. Diff from Sierra with driveshafts
3. Uprights from Sierra
4. Discs or drums (What do you use?)
5. Four front link rods
6. Coilover shocks with mounts
Is that it?
I'd really appreciate any pictures you can send me from as many angles as possible or parts lists etc which might help. I can't remember what
pictures you had on your photo area and the photos ain't working just now on this site so I can't check. (Oi Webmaster, what's happened to the
photo section?) 
Oh one final thing, when you say your chassis is +4", do you mean that tube O is 46" and B1 is 44" ?
Thanks again Stu,
Craig.
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Stu16v
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| posted on 14/3/03 at 08:48 PM |
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Sorry mate, dont do tubes, RC book became occiasional reading a long time ago......
Chassis is standard RC width at front of chassis, widening along engine bay area to 4" wider in seating area (where the chassis rails run parallel,
and where I have lost three inches in it's length).
I am running discs.
I havent got the use of a digi cam at mo (borrowed one to take the piccys in the photo area) but when I have the use of it again I will mate.
Dont just build it.....make it!
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craig1410
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| posted on 14/3/03 at 10:10 PM |
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Don't do tubes?? What kind of Locofreak are you!! I thought everyone on this forum knew their tubes back to front and inside out (or at least that's
how I've built my chassis...)
No probs, I get the idea and it should be the same as mine if the backend is 4" wider as you have described which is good 
I'm sure I can figure things out from your existing pics but if you do get a digicam again then extra pics never go wrong.
Thanks again for your time,
Craig.
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craig1410
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| posted on 17/3/03 at 11:00 AM |
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Stu,
I've just spoken to someone from Dax who told me point blank that they don't sell parts separately. I explained that I knew of at least one person
who had bought the de-dion beam axle to which they seemed surprised to say the least. The guy I spoke to is going to check with his Boss and get back
to me but it doesn't look good...
As for MK, they don't produce the de-dion beam any more so no joy there either. It's looking more and more like I'm going to end up with a live
axle unfortunately...
Any ideas?
Cheers,
Craig.
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James
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| posted on 17/3/03 at 11:36 AM |
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quote:
As for MK, they don't produce the de-dion beam any more so no joy there either. It's looking more and more like I'm going to end up with a live
axle unfortunately...
Any ideas?
Cheers,
Craig.
Hi Craig,
I thought you said you wanted this thing built quickly! Most deviations from the book add time to the build- I should know! 
Both The Isonblade and The Hicost use live axles- what more do you need to know!
Good Luck,
James
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craig1410
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| posted on 17/3/03 at 11:49 AM |
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Hi James,
I know, I know...
Actually, given the situation with MK and Dax, I 'm currently trying to find a suitable Cortina or Capri live axle. If I find one then job done, I'm
back in the live axle camp again.
I'm off out to my local scrappies to see what he has for me.
Cheers,
Craig.
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craig1410
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| posted on 17/3/03 at 04:48 PM |
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Well Dax have come back to say that they WILL supply a de-dion axle but it will take 3-4 weeks (next production run) to get one without the brackets,
or I can have one ex-stock right now. The catch is that the ex-stock one has all the additional brackets and costs £180 +VAT +p&p (Best part of
£250!)
If I wait 3-4 weeks and get a basic axle then it will be £130 +VAT +p&p which is a bit better but still quite steep for a long tube with two brackets
on it...
I think I will spend the next 2 or 3 weeks hunting for a Capri axle and if I still haven't got one then I might just get the basic de-dion from Dax.
I just hate all this waiting about, I want to weld something!!! 
Cheers,
Craig.
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cat7even
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| posted on 18/3/03 at 12:47 PM |
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Why not use an old de dion as per alfa?
I plan to use one?
Comments
The shifty swede
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craig1410
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| posted on 18/3/03 at 01:22 PM |
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Hi Shifty Swede,
Interesting, tell me more...
What sort of alfa are we talking about, there is an Alfa 33 in my local scrapyard right now. Any use? These are front wheel drive though aren't they,
or are you talking about using the front end of the alfa in the back of a Locost (with steering fixed I expect
I'm certainly interested in all the options available but my patience is running out and I have to DO SOMETHING soon...
Cheers,
Craig.
ps. I've just unloaded my RV8 gearbox and the seller has loaned me a V8 block, sump, heads, manifolds, rocker covers and crank pulley from a Vitesse
which I can use to accurately build my chassis around. What a nice man - Thanks John!
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craig1410
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| posted on 18/3/03 at 11:07 PM |
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I guess you might have been talking about the Alfa 75 or similar. I'd forgotten about those. The handling was supposed to be excellent, due mainly to
the use of the de-dion back end. The only downside of using the backend from one of these that I can see is that the rear brake calipers were
apparently problematic and required lots of attention. I'm only going by what I've read on a website devoted to the Alfa 75 since I don't have any
special knowledge of it myself.
I've ordered a copy of the Tiger Avon book from Amazon.co.uk which should be here tomorrow or Thursday. I'll take a look at what is involved in
grafting IRS from the Avon onto the Locost as per some advice others have given.
Cheers,
Craig.
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dougal
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| posted on 19/3/03 at 10:06 PM |
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i think i have a solution.
im going de dion and have got a de dion tube off a volvo 340. if you use the sierra hub carriers with the tube ( only a small amount of fetteling)
then this will give a track of around 1370mm (perfect for you).
the tube has a nice bend to clear a sierra diff and is very strong.
personally i have removed all the steel fabrication on the tube and have used machined aluminium 'ears' to cary the hubs and to take it
out to sierra track width (+100mm). altough my setup will be a fair bit lighter and the width i want, i suspect i will fall into the 2 years+
catagory.
all you need to do for a very easy cost effective solution is to get the volvo tube (i paid £10) and a sierra rear suspension/drive sub assembely for
which i paid £50 for a xr4x4 with lsd and discs. all that is then needed is to weld od the brackets a la rc and extent the trailing arms by the tube
offset from the drive centre line (about 4" and cut off some surpless brackets iff you fell like it.
hope this helps
pete.
ps any more questions just ask
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craig1410
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| posted on 19/3/03 at 10:49 PM |
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Hmm!
Sounds interesting Pete, I think I'll take a look at a 340 at the weekend, I think I saw one at my local scrapyard last weekend (may have been a
440 though).
I have lots of questions about this but I suspect I will answer many of them by looking at the 340 installation so I'll wait until then for
most.
A couple of things which do interest me for now though:
1. Track width - I am hoping to use Sierra LSD and drive shafts without any changes and thus I think track should be 1470mm unless I'm missing
something. That figure is from www.carfolio.com and I am assuming it is tyre centre to centre. Perhaps you didn't realise that I am building the
4" (100mm) wider chassis as in the McSorley plans.
2. The machined aluminium "ears" - Did you fabricate these and if so, do you have dimensions and/or drawings which you'd be prepared
to share? Is aluminium strong enough for this task or is it a harder alloy of aluminium?
I am indeed very interested in this idea and will certainly seek a 340 at the weekend to have a look-see. I'd appreciate some more detail on the
above two points if you get a moment.
Thanks for the promising suggestion,
Craig.
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Fast Westie
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| posted on 20/3/03 at 10:02 AM |
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Just for interest the Cateringvans used a Dedion rear end with a Sierra diff. You can pic up the tubes second hand for about £70-100
The car in front is a Westfield
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craig1410
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| posted on 20/3/03 at 12:53 PM |
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Hi,
Thanks for that, where would I be likely to find a second hand cateringvan de-dion tube ? (Ebay?)
Cheers,
Craig.
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gadrego
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| posted on 20/3/03 at 02:20 PM |
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Don't know if this is any help to you or not but have you seen this ad in the for sale section? If the link doesn't work, its the ad
selling to LSD's.
http://forum.locostbuilders.co.uk/xmb/viewthread.php?tid=4128
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craig1410
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| posted on 20/3/03 at 07:17 PM |
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Hi,
Thanks, I had actually seen this post but discounted it initially due to the distance factor. (Cambridge to Glasgow is a fair trek!)
On second thoughts though I've emailed Chaz to ask a bit more about the de-dion tube and he's going to send me a photo of it. It seems to
be quite different to the one from Dax as Chaz says the driveshafts actually run inside the tubes. I can't picture it but hopefully the
photo's will make everything clear. Has anyone out there seen or used the MK Engineering version of the de-dion axle? Is it any good?
Do any of you guys know of any couriers which are good at transporting this sort of stuff cheaply. Ideally on a C.O.D. basis.
Cheers,
Craig.
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dougal
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| posted on 20/3/03 at 11:25 PM |
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the wider setup as i am using is infact easyer as i forgot to concider that the drive shafts would have to be shortened.
to run a sierra rear track the beam has to be 1400mm (i cheaked again today at work on a sierra we had in) end to end and the volvo tube is 1300. the
simplest solution i came up with is to butcher the sierra trailing arms and weld the hub mounting section onto the volvo tube which will give almost
exactly the right track.
i do not feel that the tube width has to be perfect as the cv juints give quite alot of movement in this direction.
the bolt on ears idea came from caterham which uses an almost identical setup so the alloy design should be up to the job.
i am very lucky in the fact that my boss has just bought a milling machine so there is no problem.
i have no formal designs drawn up yet but when i do i will have no issues with giving you a copy ( i use pro/e but can be persuaded to use autocad
2000)
in general after stripping the tube bare two end plates have to be acuratly welded on ( these have to be set to the desired toe and camber). then the
alloy plates will be about 200x120x40mm and will simply need four holes to suit the end plate, four holes to suit the sierra rear hub and a large
boring of 82 mm ( for drums not sure if same for disc version). if you have a colunb drill and can find some 40mm thick stock then you can make them
at home. a machine shop could knock them up in an hour or so if you cut the profile so would not be expensive.
of course it may prove more time/cost effective for you to find a cater/dax tube but i want to make everything on my car.
hope my waffelings have helped a bit.
pete
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craig1410
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| posted on 20/3/03 at 11:31 PM |
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Dougal,
Thanks for the details, I think I get the idea now.
I'm currently talking to another forum user about an MK engineering de-dion tube which he has available. That may be easier for me in the
absence is machining equipment. I will, however, have a look at the Volvo tube at the weekend.
Thanks,
Craig.
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dougal
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| posted on 20/3/03 at 11:33 PM |
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ps
this caterham build diary gives a good look at the setup but they dont use the sierra disc hubs so ignor the caliper mounts built into the ears
http://www.apgreenaway.freeserve.co.uk/RearSuspension.html
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craig1410
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| posted on 20/3/03 at 11:38 PM |
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Looks nice doesn't it?
Cheers,
Craig.
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elewayne
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| posted on 23/3/03 at 01:01 AM |
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IRS
Have you looked at the drawings in the Tiger Avon book for Irs?
I know what you mean about wading off into the chassis. I have just decided to re do mine as my trans won't fit a book width chassis. I'm
using a oldsmobile Quad 4 engine and a T5 trans from a camaro. We have to find all kinds of stuff here in the states. Good luck. My web site is
Texaslocost.homestead.com
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James
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| posted on 24/3/03 at 03:27 PM |
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quote:
My web site is Texaslocost.homestead.com
Had a look at your site- very nice. That engine looks wicked!
Cheers,
James
[Edited on 24/3/03 by James]
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craig1410
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| posted on 25/3/03 at 10:56 PM |
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James,
I thought initially that you were talking about my website and I was worried for your sanity for a moment! My engine in the photo's on my
website is just a block and sump with the heads set on top! I'm using it for a sizing guide.
I then realised that you were talking about TexasLocost and I agree with you, it is a nice site and engine. Nice one EleWayne!
Cheers,
Craig.
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elewayne
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| posted on 26/3/03 at 12:28 AM |
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Web site
Hi guys, Thanks, That Quad 4 is a GM copy of an Offenhauser design used in the indy cars of the late fiftys and early sixtys. the offies had 250
cubic in. and mine has 135 Cubic in. A little less power but it still gets over 200hp. The heads and cam carriers are alum and can be polished
too.I'm using one of Jim McSorleys chassis designs as a basis for my new one which will be a 2+2+1 1/2 and I'm using his desigh with
a front like the Tiger Avon, only not tilted up. The T5 camaro trans just won't fit the standard chassis. My son is 6'3" and
i'm making it a little longer for him. Be a shame if he couldn't drive it.
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craig1410
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| posted on 27/3/03 at 09:56 PM |
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Hi All,
Since it was me who started this thread I just wanted to thank you all for your advice and comments and to let you know that I've resolved my
dilemma!!
Chazpowerslide has just posted (today) a complete MK Engineering de-dion suspension setup with Sierra hubs, driveshafts, ears etc and since he's
such a nice chap he even threw in a free differential unit from a Granada. He can obviously tell that I need all the help I can get...
Anyway, thanks everyone and especially thanks to Chaz who I might add, went to great lengths to organise postage for 81Kg's of locost bits from
Cambridge to Kilmarnock. He also gave me some sound advice over the phone which will help no end.
Cheers,
Craig.
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