jonnyg0klj
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 posted on 27/7/03 at 09:06 PM |
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rear axel
I'm a new builder, and i'm busy sourcing the parts i'm going to build the car with. I have got a cheap sierra with a 2.0Dohc
engine, i know people have built using the engine even though it has it's floors. Can anyone help me with this problem - I want to stick to the
book chassis. obvioulsly i have to occomodate the extra room for the engine, but i don't want IRS this seems too complicated. In my opinion a
live axle would seem a better idea.
What axel should i source? as Escort II's just don't exist any more. Would a cortina, capri do the job, even though the wheel base would
be longer.
Any ideas would be a great help
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heyzee
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| posted on 27/7/03 at 09:12 PM |
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axle
hi and welcome.you can use either the capri or cortina axles.plenty of people on here are useing them.when i started my build i had a axle and i didnt
know what it was out of,placed a breif description of it on here and within a couple of hours found out it was a capri axle and was given loads of
info.very freindly people
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andyjack
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| posted on 28/7/03 at 12:34 AM |
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You are one step in front of me if you have your donor as I am still looking out for mine. I have however, already suffered headaches trying to make
sence of it all and that has given me a brief glimps of what is to come.
The conclusion I have come to with help from this forum is that there is no easy way forward. If you can sourse all the parts as to the book then
things should be reasonably straightforward with plenty of suspension and body parts available off the shelf.
Once you start to deviate from the book you unearth a real bucket of worms. For example if you go with a capri rear axle you would have to build the
shassis + 4 That in turn would mean that either the escort steering rack would need extensions on the TRE or the sierra rack would have to be
shortened, or at least I think, please correct me if I am wrong because I am still trying to get all this straight in my own mind. I am also prety
sure from reading other posts on the forum that building +4 makes finding the correct size body panels difficult too.
Personaly I want a 2ltr pinto if I can get the right donor, my plan is to build as to the book but make the sides 14" instead of 13 to
accomodate the pinto and then just sit it out for a rack and axle.
I am sure that more experienced members will be able to put us both right on these points. 
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jonnyg0klj
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| posted on 28/7/03 at 01:07 AM |
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Thanx
Is that + 4 (i presume inches) to accomidate the extra wheel base? I know what you mean about the worms. Sourcing a escort mkII is hard enough, but
finding one that hasn't been stripped of locost parts is a lot harder. But i want the exra power and speed. I was planning to make my own body
panels any how, so there shouldn't be a problem. I need to sit down with all the bits measure them and design a suitable frame for them using
the book as a guide. mammouth task, but thats what makes it all the better. I'm up for the challenge (just have to keep telling myself that)
once i get the dimensions right and the chassis built the rest will fit together with 'relative' ease. but i'm sure i'll come
back here a lot.
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leto
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| posted on 28/7/03 at 07:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andyjack
You are one step in front of me if you have your donor as I am still looking out for mine. I have however, already suffered headaches trying to make
sence of it all and that has given me a brief glimps of what is to come.
The conclusion I have come to with help from this forum is that there is no easy way forward. If you can sourse all the parts as to the book then
things should be reasonably straightforward with plenty of suspension and body parts available off the shelf.
Once you start to deviate from the book you unearth a real bucket of worms. For example if you go with a capri rear axle you would have to build the
shassis + 4
Actually, I think the Capri axle fits the book chassis better then the Escort axle. You might have to locate a set of slightly wider rear wings, but
that's about it.
The Cortina-axle can do with a somewhat wider chassis.quote:
That in turn would mean that either the escort steering rack would need extensions on the
TRE or the sierra rack would have to be shortened, or at least I think, please correct me if I am wrong because I am still trying to get all this
straight in my own mind. I am also prety sure from reading other posts on the forum that building +4 makes finding the correct size body panels
difficult too.
Personaly I want a 2ltr pinto if I can get the right donor, my plan is to build as to the book but make the sides 14" instead of 13 to
accomodate the pinto......
Please pick out your books (second ed.) and turn to page 63. In fig 4.33 you will see the plan for "Positioning of front suspension
brackets". Now, let us study members LB and FU1 for a moment. As you can see these members are slanted in different angles and arranged in such
a way that they will cross. Take a look at the upper suspension brackets, they are placed close to the point were the outer surfaces of LB and FU1
cross. This is the only positions they can be placed if you want the holes in the brackets to overlap.
If you make the frame 25mm higher, without any other changes, the crossing point of LB and FU1 will move upwards and the positioning of the front
suspension mounting brackets will become somewhat tricky.[END OF LESON]
IMHO you have left "bucket of worms", skipped "box of big, hairy spiders" and moved directly to "barrel of nasty
snakes".
In short: If you want a higher frame, you will have to redesign the entire front end.quote:
.......and then just sit it out for a rack and axle.
I am sure that more experienced members will be able to put us both right on these points.
Happy building!
Leif
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andyd
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| posted on 28/7/03 at 07:53 AM |
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A Cortina axle will fit ok on a book chassis it'll just stick out a little further. This means that with the correct offset wheels and a pair
of wider (than book) rear arches you can have the arches filled nicely with some luvly wide rubber! 
If you search for posts by Jasper or myself with the word Cortina or offset you'll get a few threads that may shed light on any problems
you'll face. However the problems are minimal and not really because of the extra width of the axle itself.
HTH
Andy
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James
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| posted on 28/7/03 at 09:27 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jonnyg0klj
Thanx
Is that + 4 (i presume inches) to accomidate the extra wheel base? I know what you mean about the worms. Sourcing a escort mkII is hard enough, but
finding one that hasn't been stripped of locost parts is a lot harder.
<snip>
It's fine to build a Book chassis and use either a Cortina or Capri axle. Both Jasper and Jon Ison have used Cortinas.
If you hunt around enough you can even get a LSD Capri axle if you want one.
HTH,
James
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James
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| posted on 28/7/03 at 09:41 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by leto
<snip>
In short: If you want a higher frame, you will have to redesign the entire front end.
<snip>
You could always cheat of course! Build the chassis as standard and then add 1" of RHS all around the top rails.
Yes, the will be a weight penalty but it's not that extreme and their may possibly be issues with the nose cone- not sure on this one.
It may also look a little odd but this'll be covered by you're ali paneling.
Anyway, just an idea- it's not something I've put into practise!
HTH,
James
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andyjack
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| posted on 28/7/03 at 12:31 PM |
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Yes I had thought about the suspension mounting being 1" higher than it should be and had decided that I would work round that one way or
another, or as james suggests cheat by adding an extra inch round the top rails. To be honest I havnt even started to plan on paper my aproach, as it
will be a waste of time until I get a doner and know what I am up against.
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leto
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| posted on 28/7/03 at 01:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andyjack
Yes I had thought about the suspension mounting being 1" higher than it should be and had decided that I would work round that one way or
another, or as james suggests cheat by adding an extra inch round the top rails. To be honest I havnt even started to plan on paper my aproach, as it
will be a waste of time until I get a doner and know what I am up against.
Very good thinking!
May I suggest you make that approach on a CAD-system instead of paper.
http://www.freebyte.com/cad/cad.htm
But for sketching your ideas, nothing beats paper and pencil.
Happy building!
Leif
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JoelP
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| posted on 28/7/03 at 09:33 PM |
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Call me daft but i planned mine by sitting beside the gear box and working out where i wanted the gear selector! Got a seat and then planned some
mounting points, bodged it from there. I was worried about it being flimsy but i think i overkilled the triangulation, i can barely lift the
spaceframe! Seems ok though...
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andyjack
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| posted on 28/7/03 at 11:02 PM |
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Thanks for the link I am sure that will come in very handy. Can you recomend any of the programs listed for a CAD virgin. I havnt a clue wich one to
download or how to use it once it is downloaded.
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Rorty
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| posted on 29/7/03 at 04:08 AM |
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jonnyg0klj:
quote:
Would a cortina, capri do the job, even though the wheel base would be longer.
The wheelbase wouldn't be longer, the track would be wider.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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leto
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| posted on 29/7/03 at 07:15 AM |
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andyjack/
Haven't used any of them my self, so i really don't know. Why not drop a question on some list
I use Pro/Engineer at work, it is very powerfull and a real pain to run (but it pays well ) I guess Pro/Desktop isn't powerful but still a
pain to run, so stay away.
TurboCAD is/was used by some on the Yahoo-list.
Happy drawing!
Leif
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davef
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| posted on 29/7/03 at 12:49 PM |
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andyjack don,t worry about escort axle, use cortina fine on 42 inch chassis, stronger diff with rear access, bigger better brakes, thicker half shaft
tubes better for welding, and fills up the arches better. carry on. cheers davef.
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andyjack
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| posted on 4/8/03 at 04:17 PM |
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I have been pondering the problem of the cross over point of LB and FU1 as highlighted by leif. And have come up with a potentialy simple solution. My
plan is to simply weld a sort section of 1inch RHS at either end of LC and below where fu1&2 are welded to S&T. This should keep the
relationship between LB and FU1 as per the book. See the image below for a rough idea of what I mean. Sorry about the crap drawing but I just did it
quick to illustrate my idea. What do you guys think can anyone spot any further potential problems?
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JoelP
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| posted on 4/8/03 at 05:25 PM |
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Looks and sounds right, though i aren't using the book design myself.
Just make sure that its all capped braced and triangulated! or something like that...
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mranlet
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| posted on 4/8/03 at 05:32 PM |
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I don't have the book plans in front of me, but I believe that the upper A-arm mounts may have to be wrestled with in order to get the proper
Castor angle (which will have to be done regardless of scrict adherence to the book or otherwise).
I don't really understand the need for a taller frame... If it's regarding engine size, why don't you just make the mounts 1"
taller and make the appropiate bump-outs where needed rather than try and re-arrange the entire top plane of the frame? (it might also look pretty
slick to have a hood bulge if your motor is tall enough to require it)
-MR
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andyjack
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| posted on 4/8/03 at 05:41 PM |
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To be honest the reason for wanting to make the side rails 14 inch is to accomodate a 2ltr pinto while still keeping the option (funds allowing) of
using off the shelf nose cone, bonnet and scuttle.
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type 907
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| posted on 4/8/03 at 08:56 PM |
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Escort rack extensions not a problem.
See my photo archive ; wishbone asy.
Too much is just enough
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leto
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 02:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andyjack
..........What do you guys think can anyone spot any further potential problems?
Well, it might be enough to alter the length of LD and LC to
move the crossing point back. I was going to tried this on the CAD but came to the conclusion that the the book frame's crossing point is out of
place.
If you look at McSorly's book chassis drawing, page 3. the crossing point looks to be to high. On the McSorly 7 +442 it looks to be in about
the right place. Comments anyone?
Cheers! Leif
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leto
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| posted on 10/8/03 at 08:50 AM |
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The changes to fit the front end for a 14" chassis looks to be samler then I expected 
Drawing is based on 22 mm from the centre of the hole to the mounting surface on suspension bracket. Is this correct?
Cheers! Leif
[Edited on 10/8/03 by leto]
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