pond
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 01:19 PM |
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A question of power?
Hello,
I am seriously looking at buying a ready-built car, with the view to making it a hobby, therefore wanting to develop a fire-breathing monster, funds
allowing!
My question is:
Out of the box, which kit manufacturer has the best chassis to cope with high power levels? I am looking at tigers and Robin Hoods at the moment, but
will consider anything except Westys or Caterhams as they are too expensive second- hand!!
Another question:
Has anyone exploited the 2.5l turbo Duratec yet, as they must be getting available used by now? will they physically fit into a typical
'7' type engine bay??
I am considering a RH with a Rover T series turbo engine, but am put off by research saying these engines need big money to make them powerful!
Any comments gratefully received, as knowledge is power!!!
Ta
Andy
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mark chandler
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 01:36 PM |
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Buy Simons car for sale on here, 3.9 EFI rover so already approaching 200bhp, easy to add another 100bhp on these and you will have £££ to play
with.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/52/viewthread.php?tid=166006
Regards Mark
[Edited on 4/2/12 by mark chandler]
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 02:02 PM |
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Pond, use the search function to look for builders already using the duratec.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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iank
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 02:08 PM |
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Robin hoods, except the Zero (now they are GBS), are heavy and not the best designed chassis in fact some are dreadful.
Tiger are fine (afaik) excepting some dodgy bodywork fit.
Most of the others are very similar in general, with procomp (which you're unlikely to find many of second hand) or MNR are probably the best of
the rest.
Dax get some very big powerful engines fitted, but again not cheap second hand.
BUT a Caterham, and to a slightly lesser extent Westfield, keep their value much better so if/when you sell you'll get more of your money back
again.
Simon's car is extremely good value if you want to go the v8 route to power.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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phelpsa
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 02:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pond
Hello,
I am seriously looking at buying a ready-built car, with the view to making it a hobby, therefore wanting to develop a fire-breathing monster, funds
allowing!
My question is:
Out of the box, which kit manufacturer has the best chassis to cope with high power levels? I am looking at tigers and Robin Hoods at the moment, but
will consider anything except Westys or Caterhams as they are too expensive second- hand!!
Another question:
Has anyone exploited the 2.5l turbo Duratec yet, as they must be getting available used by now? will they physically fit into a typical
'7' type engine bay??
I am considering a RH with a Rover T series turbo engine, but am put off by research saying these engines need big money to make them powerful!
Any comments gratefully received, as knowledge is power!!!
Ta
Andy
Is the 2.5l turbo "duratec" you talk of actually the volvo engine?
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pond
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 02:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
quote:
Originally posted by pond
Hello,
I am seriously looking at buying a ready-built car, with the view to making it a hobby, therefore wanting to develop a fire-breathing monster, funds
allowing!
My question is:
Out of the box, which kit manufacturer has the best chassis to cope with high power levels? I am looking at tigers and Robin Hoods at the moment, but
will consider anything except Westys or Caterhams as they are too expensive second- hand!!
Another question:
Has anyone exploited the 2.5l turbo Duratec yet, as they must be getting available used by now? will they physically fit into a typical
'7' type engine bay??
I am considering a RH with a Rover T series turbo engine, but am put off by research saying these engines need big money to make them powerful!
Any comments gratefully received, as knowledge is power!!!
Ta
Andy
Is the 2.5l turbo "duratec" you talk of actually the volvo engine?
No Idea!
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big_wasa
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 02:30 PM |
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^^ I would also think the engine your on about ie the St and Rs 2.5 lump thats badged as a duratec is volvo bassed.
If its a volvo bell housing pattern then that will be the first thing to overcome.
What about the 2.3 turbo from the mazda 3 mps. That should mount to the 2.0 Duratec bellhousing and then to a beefed up T9.
People are now getting 500bhp out of zetec's. May be easier ?
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pond
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 02:41 PM |
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Thanks for the replies.
I like the look of the 'home-made' car linked to in the first reply with the 3.9 rover V8!!
I have u2ued Simon to find out if it's still available as his fleabay ad finished yesterday.
I didn't know the 2.5T ford engine, yes the unit from the STs/ new mondeos etc, was a Volvo engine.
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snapper
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 02:50 PM |
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If you have not driven a 7 replica or even been in one, I would at least be a passenger in one before you commit.
150 bhp is a lot in a 7
200 bhp is exciting to say the least
300 bhp will take a particuly well set up car and a very good driver to tame
The Volvo 2.5 turbo can give 300 easy to 440 without to much trouble.
If the wheels spin in all gears most of the time and light upon the corners it's not fun anymore
IMHO
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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monck
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 02:57 PM |
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Id go with Snappers advise 
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 03:02 PM |
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if its your "first" kit car then aim for about 150-180bhp, thats plenty to get yourself into trouble 
i started out with that much power and then got bored so i then changed the engine and got myself 321bhp and it then turns the car into a rocket thats
too fast for road use, with the lower hp engine you could use more of the engine all the time where with the higher hp you had to be sure it was safe
to floor it
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pond
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 03:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
If the wheels spin in all gears most of the time and light upon the corners it's not fun anymore
IMHO
That sounds like EXTREMELY good fun to me!
I understand your point, and agree in some respects, however, I want a hobby not really a form of transport. I have other cars for that!
I am still unsure which way to go, but want whatever I decide to buy to be able to be 'upgraded' without throwing most of it away and
starting again.
This is why I had pretty much decided on a Zetec or Duratec, but the Rover V8 sounds like it could have potential (apart I presume from the added
weight of the lump)?!
Andy
It isn't rocket science........except rocket science!!
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DIY Si
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 03:06 PM |
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I'd agree with Snapper. Any more than 200-250 bhp will need smooth roads and a good driver to exploit. I found my old 160 bhp BEC to be all I
could put down on the bumpy roads round my way, and more than enough at times. Despite a lack of torque, it was always fun in the wet!
A well set up car will allow you to travel faster with less speed and get more enjoyment out of the finished car.
What makes you want a fire breathing monster? Do you want high power mainly for the fun of it, or do you want a fast car?
Any 7 will out handle 95+% of anything of the road regardless of power levels.
Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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big_wasa
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 03:06 PM |
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I started out wanting the most power I could get out of my wallet
Ended up detuning it by ditching the webers and fitting injection. Still 150bhp in a 600kg car.
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macc man
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 03:40 PM |
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If you are looking for out and out speed a bike engined car is hard to match. On most tracks it will leave most cars behind. For road use you will not
be able to exploit massive power legaly. As said try before you buy. A 1300 seven will leave a lot of cars standing.
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pond
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 03:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
What makes you want a fire breathing monster? Do you want high power mainly for the fun of it, or do you want a fast car? quote:
Mainly for the fun of it!
I have never even been in a '7', so at the moment it is all congecture. I have had performance and 'fast' car before and
enjoyed these for many different reasons.
I have always been a fan of bikes ( I have owned over 30 since I was 16) but have come to the conclusion that bikes are no longer my thing, being 44
now, having a young child and just getting a bit more 'sensible'.
Whatever i buy, I want it to be able to be whatever I decide I want it to be, I suppose. I also, especially at the moment, want value for money and
will not spend money I don't have to, or want to!
There is an ex-racing Tiger for sale, this has everything; 200hp Zetec, Quaife, AVO coilovers, etc, but it is (obviously) a lot of money. I
don't know if I want something that's all done for me, so all I have to do is drive it on the three nice days of the year!
It isn't rocket science........except rocket science!!
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monck
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 03:59 PM |
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Someone told me if 200 hp aint enough for you in a 7 and you really want to terrify yourself further why not buy a super-bike as it would be cheaper
im sure a decent 1000cc bike would do 170mph+ if you had the ball's or were dumb enough
Just a thought
[Edited on 4/2/12 by monck]
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 04:16 PM |
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I'm with the power limit theory.mine is approx 200bhp and awesome fun on a dry road.chuffing terrifying on anything damp.I could easily get
another hundred ponies,and have the bits lying about,but never have cause not being Nigel Mansel it'd probably make me slower trying to avoid
solid objects!
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pond
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 04:19 PM |
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I can see the points above and agree mostly.
Surely, though, it's the WAY an engine provides its power that is as important, if not more so, than just bhp.
For instance, I can imagine a BEC is 'all hell' or nothing, a tuned 4 pot is similar only less so, but a big block (V8), even slightly
tuned, will be inherently more torquey, thus being more driveable and tractable at any given moment, making it more 'all things to all
men'?!
I am even thinking about making a road going show car, mainly cos I'm a show off and like attention!!
It isn't rocket science........except rocket science!!
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scudderfish
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 04:22 PM |
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V8 with not much of an exhaust. Sounds fantastic even when you're not ragging it
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pond
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 04:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scudderfish
V8 with not much of an exhaust. Sounds fantastic even when you're not ragging it
Now that IS appealing.
It isn't rocket science........except rocket science!!
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tul214
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 04:30 PM |
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Have you seen 1999 Dax Rush Kit Car 4x4 chassis, suspension, Brakes,Diff & huge load of extras | eBay ?
It obviously has the ability to take the power. Not sure on the 4x4 bit though.
1.6 Raw Super6 sold
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 04:50 PM |
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With 200hp i'm unable to change gear as quick as the engine would like in 1st and 2nd and by 3rd I have a second to look at the Speedo and its
in 3 figures.for a car used on the road surely that's enough,anymore you'll have to think about feathering the throttle cause its lighting
up the tyres in those few seconds.I can't see that being fun!
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mark chandler
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 05:26 PM |
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My Locost has 200bhp, very light with a bike engine and spins up slicks.
My problem is getting it to stick to the track, driver ability, grip and handling in that order is the problem, not power.
Regards Mark
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britishtrident
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| posted on 4/2/12 at 05:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pond
Hello,
I am seriously looking at buying a ready-built car, with the view to making it a hobby, therefore wanting to develop a fire-breathing monster, funds
allowing!
My question is:
Out of the box, which kit manufacturer has the best chassis to cope with high power levels? I am looking at tigers and Robin Hoods at the moment, but
will consider anything except Westys or Caterhams as they are too expensive second- hand!!
Another question:
Has anyone exploited the 2.5l turbo Duratec yet, as they must be getting available used by now? will they physically fit into a typical
'7' type engine bay??
I am considering a RH with a Rover T series turbo engine, but am put off by research saying these engines need big money to make them powerful!
Any comments gratefully received, as knowledge is power!!!
Ta
Andy
You should get out more have been watching too much Top Gear 100 bhp in a a very light car is more than enough to frighten yourself sh@*less or
have a lot of fun. Also remember weight a Robin Hood is like a truck compared to a Caterham Superlight with a Rover K.
What these cars should be about is: good ultra precise handling, lightweight with power only third on the priority list.
A badly built car badly setup Seven style car will be both frightening and unpleasant to drive.
My advice is look for an MK with a Silver Top Zetec.
[I] What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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