Chris Green
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 09:28 AM |
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Roll Cages
Hello!
I will be using my locost for the road, trackdays, sprints, hill climbs and solo's (and maybe autotests).
The question I have is, should I fit a full cage? or would a standard bar suffice?
What other options for a full cage do I have?
I've noticed the caterhams have a cage that routes along the rear arch and along the door bar.
Can people post some pictures of some roll cage options, so I can have a look?
Thank you!
Chris.
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locoboy
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 09:42 AM |
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You will need to check with the relevant motorsport bodies as to the regs for the events you listed.
Have a look on the MK site i think they have a pic of their red rocket on there which had a full cage IIRC.
ATB
Locoboy
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Chris Green
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 10:21 AM |
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none of the events I listed actually require a cage under MSA regulations. They all have road classes.
It is more a question of safety to be honest.
I wouldn't fancy rolling one without a complete cage.
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dern
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 10:36 AM |
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My car will be used for the same sort of things and I didn't want a full cage so I think I'm going to go for something like this...
http://locost7.info/files/chassis/rollbar.jpg
...but with a removeable bar from the middle of the hoop to the passenger footwell.
Mark
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locoboy
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 10:43 AM |
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Fozzie on here has a full cage on his motor by the looks of it, u2u him for some info im sure he will be wiling to give you advice/tips.
ATB
Locoboy
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shortie
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 10:49 AM |
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Hi Chris,
My car will be used for the same sort of thing and I had a roll cage welded in by MK. If you have a look at my photo archive you can see the chassis
with the cage.
I intend eventually to race it so thought a full cage is best but will also probably add a bolt-on side impact bar as in my opinion that area is still
very vulnerable.
The events you mention are not quite the same as racing but maybe you'll enjoy it and then want to go racing so a roll cage now may be better.
Bear in mind that a full cage is quite heavy but in my view safety is one of the most important things.
HTH,
Rich.
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phelpsa
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 11:02 AM |
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Dern, I am using that roll bar (it is an ST item). It is a taller, racing bar, which is stronger and also a bit heavier than the road spec one.
Adam
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Fozzie
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 12:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by colmaccoll
Fozzie on here has a full cage on his motor by the looks of it, u2u him for some info im sure he will be wiling to give you advice/tips.
Yup, got a full cage, those brilliant guys at MK made it for me. Coz me car is built for road and race, I had it done so that it could be removed.
However, it cant be done unless some body panels are removed first, namely the rear. Now its been built, I prefer it on! The guys at SVA liked it and
were most impressed with the quality, and the chosen method of fixing. I was left with the opinion that they wouldn't have been so keen if it
had been welded (in my area at least).
Having been around racing for years I opted for the 'sandwich plate' and extremely strong allen heads. Also, the series I will be
entering, adheres to the 'Blue Book' (MSA) rules of roll cage fixing, and this is by plates and bolts. Its worth taking that in to account
first.IMO!
If you want pictures of the 'fixings' give me a shout and I will take some pics.
Hope this helps you,
ATB fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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shortie
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 12:52 PM |
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Hi Fozzie,
Interesting that you say they wouldn't be so keen if it was welded, why would that be??
Also, are you implying that the MSA 'blue book' says it cannot be a welded cage??
Rich.
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locoboy
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 12:57 PM |
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Shortie, thats the impression i got too.
Fozzie, Just had a quick skim through your archive,.........thats one nicely finished car old boy. And one of the shiniest engine bays i have seen,
did you do the paint yourself?
ATB
Locoboy
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shortie
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 01:03 PM |
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Col,
Can't believe that to be the case for the MSA as most racers have a welded in cage, I guess because it's stronger.
Rich.
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Fozzie
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 02:57 PM |
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Ta Col! My step-son painted the green!
Rich, Welded is not stronger! Not everyone is an excellent welder, and welds fatigue,weaken and rot, and what exactly is it welded too?
The plates and bolts go right through the chassis, so no chance of the welds or floor giving out if ya doing a few 360 rolls! All in my most humble
opinion of course! but I know which method I would put my trust (and life in) and those of my fellow competitors!
I have uploaded a couple of relevant extracts from The Blue Book into my photo archive. HTH
Always remember:- 'It can be dangerous out there'!
ATB fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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ned
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 03:20 PM |
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Fozzies car has to be seen to be believed, it really is a show winning piece. And she even built the engine in the front room!
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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marc n
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 03:30 PM |
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hi chris
if you have a look at a user called mookaloid on this site we recently did a cage for him in cds with removable diagonal ( rac approved )
we also do this in t45 as well as a full cage which can be seen @ www.mnrltd.co.uk look under vortx RT+
Regards
Marc
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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shortie
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 04:18 PM |
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Mine is welded directly to the chassis via reinforcement plates, all built as part of the chassis by MK.
Extract from the Blue book says that welded is fine as is bolting.
Rich.
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ned
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 04:24 PM |
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weld or bolt, just personal preference i guess 
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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shortie
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 04:28 PM |
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Marc,
Just out of interest could you provide side impact bars that will bolt onto the roll cage? My cage is identical to Fozzies but would like some side
impact protection aswell.
Rich.
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shortie
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 04:30 PM |
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I suppose so Ned although I am genuinly interested which is stronger. I have always thought a weld would be stronger but have no engineering
background so really just interested in the differences.
If bolting is stronger should we not be bolting our chassis together
Rich.
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Fozzie
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 04:46 PM |
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As in my previous postings what I say is all my interpretations and My Opinions!
But, case scenario:- you get T-boned it bends side frames, how do you get into it to repair it? grind off cage, or just undo bolts and lift it out?
and repair car
In my opinion welding is fine if you are competent, and you have used the sandwich plates to 'spread' the load as per the book.
In my opinion spreader plates and high tensile bolts makes for a safer plan of action.
The choice, as they say, is yours!
ATB fozzie
BTW loads of engineers in t'family
[Edited on 22/10/04 by Fozzie]
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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shortie
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 05:00 PM |
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Fozzie,
I see what you are saying, I am just a bit suprised as most of the race cages in RGB\Locost racing seemed to be welded and not bolted.
Surely the plate is welded to the cage and the cage itseld is welded where the bars meet anyway so why not bolt the whole lot together if bolts are
stronger?
Rich.
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phelpsa
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 05:15 PM |
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I have am bolting my roll bar in. I trust Stuart Taylor to be good enough at welding, as they do it most of the time but I do not trust myself (as I
am 13 and have had about 1 years practice).
Adam
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Fozzie
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 05:18 PM |
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Rich,
Do want you want! (in the nicest possible way).
I am only pointing out my findings, after many years of being involved with race preparation and too many years of experience of mangled race cars
(not mine I hasten to add).
I personally am not a competent welder, hence I asked MK (who are) to do my cage.
As I say, the choice is yours!
I will take a picture of the cockpit floor if you want!
fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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marc n
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 06:05 PM |
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hi rich yes we could make you bolt on / bolt off sidebars
with respect of weld on / bolt on
when you bolt on a cage you hace to either
1. weld a plate to the tube for the bolts to pass through
2. weld a boss into the tube to pass the bolts through
3. weld an insert ( safety devices type door bars ) to enable bolting
so bolt on / weld on take you pick as both have weld on mountings as such.
With respect to mounting of front cage feet the most appropriate place for strength is the bulkhead outer uprights or floor pan corner near your feet
( not cockpit floor near to seat mountings as anyone who has rolled one of these cars will tell you )
hope this helps
regards
marc
[Edited on 22/10/04 by marc n]
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shortie
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 06:15 PM |
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Thanks Mark, once I have got the car finished may give you a shout then about the side protection bar.
Also must mention that I really like your scuttle bonnet design with the moulded areo screen as a digidash could potentially be fitted in front of the
driver instead of in the middle.
I notice on your site that it says these are available only to people building a Vortx, just wondered whether in the future they will be available for
everyone?
thanks,
Rich.
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marc n
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| posted on 22/10/04 at 07:08 PM |
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hi rich
thanks, glad you like the scuttle took me a week and four tins of easyfill to creat that, my god you should have seen the dust
they will probably will be available to others as will the rest of the bodywork eventually.
For the time being this body styling combined with the chassis designs ( car and bike engines are different chassis ) helps define our car from others
and ads to the appeal and exclusivity of it
regards
marc
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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