jamiebenger
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 01:28 PM |
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4x4 front suspension
Hi im just in the process of building my 4x4 cossie powered locost. has anyone got any pics of the front suspension with the driveshafts in. i cannot
seam to figure out a way of doing this yet. i've tryed loads of dax sites but never get a good image of how the wishbones and suspension are
done. Any ideas would be great. Thanks
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quadra
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 01:30 PM |
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The Dax system uses a dax own lower ball joint which then bolts to the lower wishbone, I will send you a picture if I have one at home.
Cheers Mike
You don't need eyes to see, you need vision!
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jamiebenger
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 01:38 PM |
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Yeah a picture would be great, thanks Mike, my email is jamie.benger@tiscali.co.uk
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scutter
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 01:51 PM |
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Funilly enough I was helping Martin(Cheffy) paint and prime his chassis yesterday, he's got a 442 chassis with XR4*4 running gear.
 
Cheffys chassis 1
And compared to a book chassis.
 
Cheffy's chassis 2
I'd U2U him and have a chat.
ATB Dan.
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
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Cheffy
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 02:35 PM |
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Hi Jamie,
As Dan said, we just got my 4x4 on it's wheels for the first time yesterday. I've just updated my website. There's pictures on there
of how I'm doing it. Also, check out Liams photo's in the archive on this site.
You'll see in the photo that there's a horizontal bar connecting the two inboard upper wishbones. This is obviously only temporary, as are
the tie rods connecting each inner wishbone to it's respective outer wishbone. The tie rods will be rose jointed at each end allowing for extra
ride height adjustment and then the coilovers will connect from the inner wishbones to the bracket you can see on the chassis below them. This will
straddle the nearside driveshaft.
Must say here credit to Alan B as I partially copied his idea, and massive thanks to Dan for all his helps over the last couple of weeks. Thanks
Dan!
Hope this helps. If you want to e-mail me there's a contact page on my website.
Cheers,
Mart.
Link to website at bottom of post or:- http://www.martinfrost.me.uk
[Edited on 5/10/06 by Cheffy]
Farts are like Rock'n'Roll. You love your own but you hate everybody else's. Lemmy, Motorhead.
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scutter
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 02:38 PM |
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 , Hope you don't mind me putting up those pic's.
ATB Dan.
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
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Cheffy
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 02:41 PM |
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Hi Dan,
No problem mate. Just stuck 'em up on my website.
Mart.
Farts are like Rock'n'Roll. You love your own but you hate everybody else's. Lemmy, Motorhead.
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Alan B
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 05:39 PM |
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You've made my day......didn't think I'd ever done anything worth copying....
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Cheffy
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 05:53 PM |
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Hi Alan,
Firstly, apologies to Jamie for going slightly off topic.
Alan, you may remember that I e-mailed you some time ago asking if you minded me copying your design (I'm taking so long over this build though
it was quite a while ago!).
You very graciously said that that was fine. In fact, you actually pointed out that if you didn't want it copied you wouldn't have posted
pictures of it on your website in the first place!
Anyway, thanks again, it's the people like you, with engineering experience, and a helpful attitude, that make the whole build so much easier
for people (chef's?) like me with no engineering experience whatsoever.
Thanks again,
Mart.
Farts are like Rock'n'Roll. You love your own but you hate everybody else's. Lemmy, Motorhead.
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froggy
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| posted on 5/10/06 at 06:50 PM |
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nothing wrong with a bit of imitation im copying the dax set up on the front of mine and liam has a great way of making up the front prop from stock
ford and volvo bits too. i used mk1 fiesta bottom ball joints on the front of mine which sit in the hole on my mk wishbones nicely.
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jamiebenger
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| posted on 6/10/06 at 08:46 AM |
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Thanks for the help guys. I'll post some photos once i get started on that area, spent most of my time last night trying to get a frog out my
garage, the little bugger!!
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Liam
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| posted on 9/10/06 at 07:51 AM |
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Wow - a veritable 4x4 fest!! We'll have our own race series next...
I'll attach a zip of dax quadra build pics i have which may be of some use.
A couple of things regarding the front end worth mentioning... The dax puts the front diff further inboard than it is in the sierra. This allows it
to fit in their chassis easily and also for the MK2 escort steering column to only have to climb over the side of the front diff. The price is 2
custom length front driveshafts. On mine i've positioned the diff left-right as it would be in the sierra so i could use the standard
intermediate shaft (normally through the sump) and driveshafts. This means, though, that the steering column has to climb over the biggest part of
the diff, which i've achieved with lots of ujs and support bearings in my column. You'll have to do one of these, or perhaps find a
slightly wider steering rack since you're going for a wider chassis, although this might not be ideal for bump steer.
The other thing is the bottom balljoint. If you're going to use a standard shock position, i.e. loaded bottom balljoint, I'd be wary of
using the fiesta lower balljoint as I have which is a nice cheap part to fit in the sierra 4x4 front upright. It's only designed for
longitudinal and transverse location loads in the fiesta and mine looks like it'd bend pretty easily if you put vertical loads on it from the
suspension - it's not very thick at all in that direction. I'd either use a suspension that loads the top joint, like me and cheffy, or
get the beefy dax lower balljoints which they have custom made for this very reason. They aint that cheap though.
Hope that helps,
Liam
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kb58
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| posted on 9/10/06 at 01:29 PM |
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Hey Liam, when's your car due to be completed? Reason I ask is there are so few 4x4 Sevens out there, and I'm very curious if the
peformance warrants the added complexity.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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NS Dev
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| posted on 9/10/06 at 01:39 PM |
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Oh yes!!!!!
Only way to use big power in a 7 is 4x4 in my humble opinion. (and I am not biased cos mine isn't! )
I have been for a run out in a 480hp Dax quadra and they are not slow!!!
Clever bit is keeping it lightweight.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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quadra
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 06:52 PM |
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Ok as promised some pictures hope this helps.
Cheers Mike
You don't need eyes to see, you need vision!
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locostv8
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 07:30 PM |
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Do you get torque steer with one halfshaft being longer than the other? I'm building a Locost with a 392(351) and am keeping the thought in the
back of my head that if it is too traction limited I might convert to 4x4.
http://wrangler.rutgers.edu/gallery2/v/7slotgrille/hssss/
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quadra
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 09:39 PM |
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Not as far as I am aware, I'm usually concentrating too much on holding on. 
The mt75 box sends 33% of the power to the front and the rest to the back, so it pushes more than it pulls. My normal car is a small hot hatch and
that torque steers more.
Mike
You don't need eyes to see, you need vision!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 11/10/06 at 09:55 AM |
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Liam, those "beefy DAX lower joints" are off something else, deffo available off the shelf from the motor factors, just can't
remember what!!!!
Think they could be Jag parts?
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Syd Bridge
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| posted on 11/10/06 at 04:52 PM |
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Yes Nat, I'm tyring to remember what those joints come off as well. I've seen them recently.
On the street rod that I did recently using 4x4 Granada stuff, I used a 20mm spherical joint in a custom housing. Put a 12mm bolt through it as I
recall, with bushes in the joint and upright to bring the holes down to the bolt size.
Cheers,
Syd.
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Liam
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| posted on 11/10/06 at 06:22 PM |
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I don't doubt you're right, Nat. It was actually Dax themselves that told me they were custom made and wanted to charge me something like
100 quid all in - but that means nothing I suppose . You wouldn't believe what they want for a front propshaft ! Might have to pop down my
friendly factors and browse a catalogue...
KB58 - should be ready fairly soon (over winter)! Just sorting the megasquirt install on the engine then electrics. Will only be atmo to begin with
(about 200bhp) while i get my head round the squirt, then the turbos after (about 300bhp initially) which should use the 4WD nicely. I would never
say 4WD is necessary and i'm not doing it to chase tenths - it's just for the fun and the challenge and cos I really like driving
4WDs!!
Keeping it lightish is indeed the challenge, and i'm nicely on target for 650kg which aint bad for a V6 CEC (even 2WD) with quite a stiff and
beefy chassis. The honda V6 with most of it chucked in the bin has helped a lot here - wouldn't have a chance with a cologne...
Liam
[Edited on 11/10/06 by Liam]
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Cheffy
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| posted on 11/10/06 at 08:46 PM |
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quote:
wouldn't have a chance with a cologne...
Good point well made!
Gonna put the cologne in initially, but I've got a Rover V8 in bits in the shed which I wouldn't mind putting in eventually.
Mart.
PS. Just updated my web site. Use link at bottom of this post and check out the last two pictures on the 'Suspension' page. Not great
pictures but it'll give you an idea what I'm aiming for.
[Edited on 11/10/06 by Cheffy]
Farts are like Rock'n'Roll. You love your own but you hate everybody else's. Lemmy, Motorhead.
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Liam
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| posted on 11/10/06 at 09:36 PM |
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That's some teeny front shocks you must have there (or is it just me?). What are they off and how much suspension travel do you get?
Liam
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marc n
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| posted on 12/10/06 at 07:22 AM |
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quote:
Liam, those "beefy DAX lower joints" are off something else, deffo available off the shelf from the motor factors, just can't
remember what!!!!
think they are off a saab 900
best regards
marc
please email rather than u2u
direct workshop email ( manned 8am till 6pm )
www.mnrltd.co.uk enquireys to :-
chrismnrltd@btinternet.com
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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Cheffy
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| posted on 12/10/06 at 08:26 AM |
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Hi Liam,
Avo do 8" shocks which I'm planning on using. They have 2" of travel. However, the outer wishbones are twice the length of the inner
wishbones so, in theory, (if my mental arithmatic is correct!) I should have 4" of travel at the uprights.
Also, I have some room for adjustment on the inboard top wishbones and could go with 9" shocks if necessary, or lower the bottom bracket
slightly and go even longer.
Mart.
[Edited on 12/10/06 by Cheffy]
Farts are like Rock'n'Roll. You love your own but you hate everybody else's. Lemmy, Motorhead.
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Liam
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| posted on 12/10/06 at 07:05 PM |
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Ah right i finally see why you're doing it now - you're going above to clear the front axle wheras I just went behind it with the
shocks.
Sure it will work out. Funnily enough you seem to have thought about it and know what you're doing - I'll shut up!
Liam
P.S. Car looks nice Quadra! You may have seen the V8 Quadra that was my inspiration? What are you extracting from the cossie motor? And finally,
no offence at all, but i cant help find myself chuckling at yet another Dax rollbar! Hope you never need it
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