Noodle
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| posted on 28/7/03 at 05:40 AM |
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Alternative Bonding Methods
Various threads have pointed to the use of 3M's bonding tape as an alternative fixing rather then weld/rivet etc.
My question's two fold:
1 - Can anyone supply any information or links on the 3M product?
2 - Does anyone else have any experience/knowledge of any other alternatives that we might use?
Cheers,
Neil.
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pbura
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| posted on 28/7/03 at 12:53 PM |
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Here's a link for 3M:
http://www.3m.com/us/mfg_industrial/adhesives/vhb/
When I searched from the UK site, the search took me back to the US site, but I'm sure the tape's available in the UK, too.
I'm not sure which thickness would be best for the application, and was going to ask 3M when I got to that stage.
Fot the side panels, I am planning to pre-bend the ally to an "L" shape, tape it top and sides, then make the final bend in situ onto
exposed tape on the insides of the top chassis rails (maybe with a 30 degree pre-bend to avoid funny creases).
For the rear panel, I would tape the bottom but use rivets for the top due to the likely need to anneal the material.
Pete B.
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MK7
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| posted on 28/7/03 at 01:01 PM |
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What happens if you need to remove / replace a panel? Does 3M have a solution for detaching joined surfaces?
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pbura
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| posted on 28/7/03 at 01:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MK7
What happens if you need to remove / replace a panel? Does 3M have a solution for detaching joined surfaces?
They sell an attachment for an air chisel for separating the panels, and a rotary wheel for removing the adhesive residue.
Us low-volume/cheapskate types could probably get by with a sharp blade and a scraper 
Pete B.
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sgraber
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| posted on 1/8/03 at 04:38 AM |
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FWIW
I will be using VHB foam tape #4611 for unpainted surfaces. To order (don't know if they'll ship international...) go to
<http://www.mcmaster.com/> and do a search for 3M VHB. The various types of tape are described there as well as the best pricing I have found
for guys like me without comercial accounts. I think the 3/4" wide tape will work nicely.
4611 will withstand temps up to 300f and is less expensive than the version that bonds to painted surfaces. Surfaces must be thoroughly cleaned using
3m prep solvent.
Scotch VHB Tape For Pre-Painted Surfaces #4611, .045" Thick, 3/4" W X 36 Yds long, Dark Gray $ 30.90 per Roll
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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VinceGledhill
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| posted on 1/8/03 at 08:00 AM |
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Sikoflex is absolutely brilliant.
On my cobra build there was only one screw to hold the mirror to the side of the windscreen. I thought that this was a bit "dodgy" so I
used Sikoflex to help hold it on.
Some weeks later, post SVA a friend asked if he could borrow it for his pending SVA test. "Yes.... no problem" I said.
So... we tried to remove the mirror. Would it come off..... would it hell. It was well and truly stuck on.
It can be obtained from motor factors, it comes in a tube similar to silicone. It goes on like silicone but sticks like poo to a blanket. Removal
of the pannel later would surely involve a grinder but you would get no movement or rattles for sure.
Regards
Vince Gledhill
Time Served Auto Electrician
Lucas Leeds 1979-1983
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Afro
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| posted on 2/8/03 at 10:26 AM |
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fixing methods
For the body panels I think Im going to use M3 or 4 countersunk allen key type bolts with the chassis drilled and tapped.
This will take a while to do but has 2 advantages... 1) It looks totally trick. 2) if you need to remove the panels then you can do it easily without
risk of distortion and the need to drill out rivets
Just my opinion for what its worth
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sgraber
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| posted on 2/8/03 at 02:58 PM |
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I am going to have some removable Ali panels on my build and have bought a lot of 1/4"-20 rivnuts for the frame. I somehow feel that tapping the
16Ga (.063) frame just wont offer enough material for good threads.
I'd like to see a sample of what you are talking about tho. Do you have some examples of what you are going to do?
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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type 907
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| posted on 2/8/03 at 04:52 PM |
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Hi
I'v made several things for ICI Paints that had a box section frame clad with mirror finish stainless. I fixed them on with M4 mushroom head
allen screws. they looked realy trick.
[Edited on 16/8/04 by type 907]
Too much is just enough
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TPG
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 posted on 2/8/03 at 08:35 PM |
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Bonding methods
To stick the side panels to mine I have used a Can't belive it's not nails job in a tube.Smelly stuff to a blanket style sticking.And does
come off with a careful knife & thinners operation.It hasn't come undone in the last year.Be lucky.
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Afro
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| posted on 6/8/03 at 05:48 PM |
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Quote "I am going to have some removable Ali panels on my build and have bought a lot of 1/4"-20 rivnuts for the frame. I somehow feel
that tapping the 16Ga (.063) frame just wont offer enough material for good threads.
I'd like to see a sample of what you are talking about tho. Do you have some examples of what you are going to do? "
The tube is thin as you say, but M4 and especially M3 have quite fine threads. I haven't put this into practice yet on my chassis as i am still
building the damned thing.. but from past experience mounting instruments on panels, if you use a slightly undersized hole than required then when it
is tapped you end up with as deep a thread as poss which should be fairly strong. Spacing them out at around 100mm between bolts should provide ample
trappings for the sheet.
If i get chance I'll tap some offcuts, see how they hold up and let u know..
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madman280
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| posted on 15/8/04 at 01:16 AM |
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This is what the the auto manufactures and body men around here are using now to do unibody repairs. Nice stuff as long as you don't get it on
youself. Is a two part product that uses a special cauking type gun that holds the two tubes and a mixing nozzle.
http://www.lord.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=264
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 15/8/04 at 06:01 PM |
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We use the 3M equivalent, £250 for the applicator gun, £40 for a pair of tubes - it is VERY good though
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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nicklondon
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| posted on 16/8/04 at 06:53 AM |
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lots of new bus and coach body panels are bonded on.easy to fit,nightmare to remove.the biggest problem i can see is where the panel folds over the
top rail it is impossible to cut the bond line.i think the the best way to go is to bond the panel flush with the top of the rail then fit some form
of capping on top.
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Peteff
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| posted on 16/8/04 at 08:10 AM |
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B&Q
do a nice round top 1" aluminium strip for about £8 that does the job nicely. Long enough to do both sides of a locost cockpit.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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