aerosam
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| posted on 12/11/08 at 10:44 AM |
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just about enough clearance up front for the steering rack to go. Don't know if i'll ditch the big fan yet as theis beast is going to need
as much cooling as possible.
 
Rescued attachment engine in mount small.jpg
Had enough of this dictatorship known as LCB. Gone elsewhere, not coming back. Kiss my ass ChrisW.
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aerosam
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| posted on 12/11/08 at 10:46 AM |
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dammit wrong picture that one was showing the engine mount, I think I may have to ditch the original rubber (as shown) as it will protrude out the
side of the car. What are the downsides to mounting without rubber bushings?
Here's the pic of the front:
 
Rescued attachment engine in 2 small.jpg
Had enough of this dictatorship known as LCB. Gone elsewhere, not coming back. Kiss my ass ChrisW.
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kb58
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| posted on 12/11/08 at 02:55 PM |
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Before going further, are 1" tubes going to be strong enough? A V8 has around 300 ft-lb of torque, and a hell of a lot more once it goes through
the tranny. You might want to consider 1.25" or even 1.5" tubing, and/or lots of trangulation. Consider putting a 12" bar through
the engine mounts and applying 1000 lbs load to it, that's about what they'll see.
About it being tall, make that a feature. It's not a bad-looking engine up top, might look really nice with the BMW logo.
[Edited on 11/12/08 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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PaulBuz
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| posted on 12/11/08 at 03:11 PM |
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are you going to fit the engine at the height you have on the pics?
Your chassis is sitting on the floor!
Try paking the chassis rails with 2" blocks to raise it up, that will lower the engine a little.
Yes you should have built the tunnel & the assoc. tubes after the engine had been placed in position, but no ones perfect
I I were you I would place the engine in position by cutting out the offending rails.
Then carefully look at what you have, maybee post some pics, & build strength in where necessary.
BTW love the fact that you don't follow the pack.
Despite the fact that a hell of a lot are building 'mecano' kits, this site is & always will be LOCOST builders
ATB
Paul
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C10CoryM
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| posted on 12/11/08 at 08:29 PM |
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Couple suggestions:
- offset engine as far to the passenger side as possible
-lower engine in chassis a bit
-triangulation. Seriously, you will need it.
-bolt in triangulation. Allows you to get as much stiffness as possible and still get the big lumps in and out. I use 6 bolt in tubes on mine (not
completed yet).
-watch the foot room. I see your starter is on the drivers side (assuming it's a RHD).
Good Luck.
"Our watchword evermore shall be: The Maple Leaf Forever!"
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mr henderson
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| posted on 12/11/08 at 09:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by aerosam
dammit wrong picture that one was showing the engine mount, I think I may have to ditch the original rubber (as shown) as it will protrude out the
side of the car. What are the downsides to mounting without rubber bushings?
Solve that by making new engine mountings. Find a suitable way of mounting the rubber to the chassis, so that it doesn't protrude, then
construct a new mounting bracket with 3mm steel, suitable drilled and filleted. Ideally use thicker steel for the plate that bolts to the block, but
3mm will be ok if you give it plenty of stiffeners
John
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aerosam
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| posted on 12/11/08 at 10:11 PM |
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ok heres some more explanation
The chassis is only in VERY early stages don't worry, LOTS of triangulation is going to be added. As I'm doing something quite different,
I only built it to a stage that could be completely undone without wasting too much steel if it clearly wasn't going to work.
The engine can't go any lower, if you look at the pic of the front of the engine, you'll notice the sump actually extends forwards, there
is only a 3/8" clearance to the tube passing underneath.
The starter is actually on the passenger side, I guess the engine has that shape on the reaer flange to allow the starter to be fitted on either side
depending on whether the car is LHD or RHD. And yes mine is going to be RHD.
Also - I had no idea the engine could be offset. That may be a great idea to create more space for the pedal box. However I would be concerned that
the car may list to one side and may not handle well.
Had enough of this dictatorship known as LCB. Gone elsewhere, not coming back. Kiss my ass ChrisW.
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aerosam
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| posted on 12/11/08 at 10:16 PM |
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As far as the engine mounts go, i think I may have no choice but to stick with the originals, as the one on the passenger also forms the alternator
bracket, and has the 2 pipes to the oil filter passing through it.
I suppose I could make panels that would be about 1" from the chassis at this point - almost everything else on this car will be different to
the book - so why not?
Had enough of this dictatorship known as LCB. Gone elsewhere, not coming back. Kiss my ass ChrisW.
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aerosam
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| posted on 12/11/08 at 10:22 PM |
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and here's a pic of the engine (not mine - wish is was that clean) with the top cover on. If I can have this poking through the bonnet and still
comply with SVA I think it would look really nice.
 
Rescued attachment m60b40a.jpg
Had enough of this dictatorship known as LCB. Gone elsewhere, not coming back. Kiss my ass ChrisW.
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dmulally
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| posted on 12/11/08 at 10:45 PM |
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The BMW engine has far more clearance than my v8 I reckon. Chop that bar where the bell housing will go obviously. You wont regret it.
What I have done to move the engine back is put the pedal assembly inside the cockpit incl the master cyl but using remote reservoirs. That frees up
space.
As for worrying about the left engine mount and the alternator bracket, one thing I was toying with (I am running with no alternator at all now as its
a track car) was running the alternator off the tail shaft (I think you guys call it the prop?). If you build the tunnel high enough right before the
rear bulkhead then it would fit pretty easy. It would be a matter of playing around with pulley sizes to get the best out of it though.
If you want to see pics of my chassis let me know.
Cheers
Damian
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kb58
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 03:26 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by aerosam
Also - I had no idea the engine could be offset. That may be a great idea to create more space for the pedal box. However I would be concerned that
the car may list to one side and may not handle well.
Not a problem. Remember that your weight causes an offset load, so move the engine the other way to offset your weight and it'll be just right,
better than many cars, actually.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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Cheffy
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| posted on 13/11/08 at 02:08 PM |
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Hi,
With regard to the engine mountings I had similar problems with them sticking out too far on the Rover V8 lump.
Although I used the SD1 steel mounts I had to cut and shut them to bring the ends closer into the engine. Wouldn't be difficult to fabricate mild
steel mounts from scratch though - that's what I've done on my Zetec build. Pic of how I did the V8 below - I then fabricated up my own
mounts to weld to the chassis.
[img]
 
Engine Mounting 3
[/img]
Hope that helps some. Loads more pictures on my webite if you click on the link at the bottom of this post.
Cheers,
Mart.
Farts are like Rock'n'Roll. You love your own but you hate everybody else's. Lemmy, Motorhead.
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Theshed
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| posted on 14/11/08 at 02:11 PM |
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One easy(ish) solution to the fact that, as shown you will probably need to sit on a pillow to see over your engine would be a dry sump kit. You could
locost your own or they are available from www.vacmotorsports.com. Then all you will have to do is to work out where the oil tank will fit.
Lowering the engine has handling advantages and might help with your gearbox tube hassles.
It looks like you are having fun!
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kb58
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| posted on 14/11/08 at 05:53 PM |
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But be aware that most transmission bellhousings (assuming it's manual) hang down just as far as the bottom of the pan, so the drysump only
fixes half the problem. Small-OD flywheels and multi-plate clutches can fix that, at a price.
[Edited on 11/14/08 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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owelly
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| posted on 15/11/08 at 09:40 PM |
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I'd make verey effort to lower the engine!! Make a new alternator/engine mount and do whatever it needs to get the centre of the crank pulley,
to somewhere near the front lower rail!
I had all the usual big engine, small space thing with my engine. I chopped and welded the sump making it 2" shallower and the same depth as the
bellhousing. I binned the original alloy engine mounts and made steel ones. I made a take-off for the oil to remote the filter (and fit a cooler and
Accusump). I binned the chunky ally alternator mount and made a smaller steel one. I made tubular manifolds so the steering column could pass through
it! I extended the inlet runners and turned them 180 degrees so that it pointed forwards instead of into the pedal box. Then I had to make an
extention for the plenum as the butterfly housing fouled the cam pulleys. I had to lose the oil filler cap on the N/S rocker cover because it was
hidden under the resited plenum, so now I have to top-up through the breather on the O/S!
I had to mix and match the clutch componenets to get the Alfa to play with the Ford.
All these things are what makes my car what it is. It's a pile of rubbish to most folks, but to me, it's been a fantastic oppertunity to
prove to the doubters (and myself) that it was/is possible.
Keep asking questions. Even if they appear daft. Expect to get some unhelpfull, sarcastic or rude comments but just roll with 'em! Listen to
what folks are saying and pick out the bollox from the sensible to make up your own mind. If your questions havn't been answered, or
you're still not sure, ask again!
Most of all, enjoy.
Amen.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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aerosam
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| posted on 17/11/08 at 04:26 PM |
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thanks owelly but unfortunately I can't lower it any more, the sump is cast ally and i don't have the skills/equipment to modify it, also
to lower it any more would require considerably more chopping of the chassis, and to be honest I don't want to weaken it any more.
Had enough of this dictatorship known as LCB. Gone elsewhere, not coming back. Kiss my ass ChrisW.
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aerosam
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| posted on 17/11/08 at 04:33 PM |
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Just a quick update - I've chopped a section of the top tube behind the engine and trial fitted the engine and box together. I'm happy
that it fits ok, will just require a little more fettling to get the gearbox to sit properly.
So in my short 1 hour sessions (longest i can get without getting on the wrong side of the wife) over the last few days I have been TIG'ing up a
lot of the joints that were previosly tacked or completely unwelded to stiffen the whole thing up so when I make any further chops I can be sure the
chassis won't be distorting.
Had enough of this dictatorship known as LCB. Gone elsewhere, not coming back. Kiss my ass ChrisW.
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Simon
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| posted on 18/11/08 at 11:23 PM |
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Lower the engine - absolutely essential, for two reasons. One is handling and other could be a major prob if you don't.
When I did my first SVA, the examiner failed my original bonnet scoop on the line of sight requirement, so I had to rehash the bonnet.
If you have to start faffing around lowering your engine for the same reason, it'll be a hell of a lot of work.
I have about 2" under sump guard
There's plenty of peeps on here who can weld ally, and I'm sure they'd volunteer. I would be our AC/DC tig got melted in a fire last
year!
ATB
Simon
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aerosam
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| posted on 20/11/08 at 06:45 PM |
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Thanks for all the advice guys, and I i'm not just disregarding it, but I really CANT lower the engine any more.
Where the sump protrudes forwards, it just clears the tube in the front of the engine bay. To lower it any more would seriously weaken the chassis,
and also mean I have nowhere to mount the engine to as the 2 tubes running through the engine bay from it to the back have nowhere to go.
I've measured it and it's 13" proud of the chassis top rails at it's highest point. The standard scuttle is 10" tall.
Can't I just make the scuttle 3" taller, the same with the nosecone and make my own bonnet to fit?
Line of sight would have to be sorted with seating height. By the way, what are the requirements for it and how is it measured? Or is it simply down
to the examiners discretion?
Had enough of this dictatorship known as LCB. Gone elsewhere, not coming back. Kiss my ass ChrisW.
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l0rd
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| posted on 23/11/08 at 09:48 AM |
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Wouldn't it be wise to do a new chassis all over again after you finish with the trial fitment?
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aerosam
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| posted on 23/11/08 at 10:02 AM |
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I think I'd sooner dump the engine and use something else. Seriously, the thought has crossed my mind.
Had enough of this dictatorship known as LCB. Gone elsewhere, not coming back. Kiss my ass ChrisW.
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l0rd
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| posted on 23/11/08 at 10:19 AM |
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I can't see any BMW engines to be used for locosts. The engines are absolutely massive, even the 2L straight six ones.
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mr henderson
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| posted on 23/11/08 at 11:01 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by aerosam
I think I'd sooner dump the engine and use something else.
My vote is for you to do that too. That engine ought to be saleable, especially if you have a manual gearbox to go with it.
You can get that kind of power from smaller units if you want to
John
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aerosam
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| posted on 23/11/08 at 02:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
I can't see any BMW engines to be used for locosts. The engines are absolutely massive, even the 2L straight six ones.
Ok here's the proof that this engine can be fitted successfully.
 
Rescued attachment IMGP3547small.jpg
Had enough of this dictatorship known as LCB. Gone elsewhere, not coming back. Kiss my ass ChrisW.
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aerosam
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| posted on 23/11/08 at 02:42 PM |
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Or how about a straight 6?
 
Rescued attachment BMW5small.jpg
Had enough of this dictatorship known as LCB. Gone elsewhere, not coming back. Kiss my ass ChrisW.
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