Peteff
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| posted on 15/11/04 at 11:53 AM |
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There's something about Ned,
but I couldn't quite put my finger on it till now. 
Staple " i've used superglue for a few years now with no adverse affects ". I've seen the pictures mate, nuff said. 
Metal bonding adhesives are used in industry but not for joining tubes, they rely on bonding large flat areas usually.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Chris Green
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| posted on 15/11/04 at 01:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Staple balls
it lies on the photo page
you need to right click the image > properites > then copy the entire url (say, http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/Picture(33).jpg ) then
put it into the [img ] [/img ] tags.
Isn't that what I did? The code in my post looks the same as what you've put here?
Cheers!
Chris.
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Staple balls
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| posted on 15/11/04 at 01:43 PM |
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ahh, sh!t. just twigged you need to be sure they have the http:// on the front (probably)
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splitrivet
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| posted on 15/11/04 at 05:07 PM |
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Sorry Ned but the thought of you wandering round for 2 weeks with a rubber glove glued to your chin just cracks me up.
Scrounged some clag from a chemical firm I was working at the other day which is 50% stronger than PU. I asked the guy if he had some PU he could sell
me (hoping he'd give it me) and he said try this its loads better its called polymer sealant/adhesive.
Sorry to say the firm involved doesnt have a web site.
Cheers,
Bob
I used to be a Werewolf but I'm alright nowwoooooooooooooo
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ned
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| posted on 15/11/04 at 05:20 PM |
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well i'm glad my misfortune a few years back has brightened up someones day a little 
Ned.
ps don't fall off a wall at thorpe park and def. don't go to royal surrey hospital
beware, I've got yellow skin
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splitrivet
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| posted on 15/11/04 at 05:28 PM |
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It could have been worse Ned you might have had a doctor stuck on your chin.
Cheers,
Bob
I used to be a Werewolf but I'm alright nowwoooooooooooooo
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Hellfire
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| posted on 15/11/04 at 11:04 PM |
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<Trying to imagine Ned walking around with the finger tip glued to his face.
I'm still grinning at the thought...
He could have really gone to town and left the full finger of the glove on - you could have written a letter to complain... a french letter.
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tigris
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| posted on 16/11/04 at 01:13 AM |
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red glue
does anybody have a technical name/link to the the type of red glue used on these chassis? Is this stuff available tpo consumers?
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type r1
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| posted on 16/11/04 at 12:31 PM |
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peeps,
over 25 years ago, when i was a keen cyclist (had a peugeot racer made from 531 reynolds tubing), a friend of mine had a bike called an
'allen'. it was one of the first aluminium bikes made, and it was held together with epoxy resin and allen bolts.
couldn't a car chassis be constructed using similar principles, i.e. using some sort of adhesive and bolts of some description to join the
tubing together?
just a thought.
dom.
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Alan B
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| posted on 16/11/04 at 12:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by type r1
......it was held together with epoxy resin and allen bolts.
couldn't a car chassis be constructed using similar principles, i.e. using some sort of adhesive and bolts of some description to join the
tubing together?
just a thought.
dom.
Yes, of course it could....
However, it would need a complete redesign to utilise the materials and construction technique. Really it would be beyond the scope of most amateur
builders, and definitely NOT a replacement method of joining the steel tubes as we currently use.
Interesting discussion, and no doubt someone will step up a be an amateur pioneer in this area.
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andkilde
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| posted on 16/11/04 at 02:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by type r1
a friend of mine had a bike called an 'allen'. it was one of the first aluminium bikes made, and it was held together with epoxy resin
and allen bolts.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say your friend was both light and slight of build, no?
I remember those old Allen aluminum frames -- my local bikeshop had a couple of them they used as wall art, wouldn't let them out the door on a
test ride for anyone over 110lbs.
The rivetted and/or glued monocoque is a great and well proven idea though. It's been the de facto standard for light aircraft construction
since the 40's and, before the adoption of carbon composites, was the preferred method for building single seat and sports racers through the
70's and 80's.
A few downsides are:
1) tough to repair after a shunt.
2) have to really have your design well sorted as you can't easily move suspension points around after you've finished.
3) you need some serious engineering skills to design a rigid and durable chassis.
Welded steel tube is still, IMHO, the way to go for the likes of us amateurs.
Cheers, Ted
[Edited on 16/11/04 by andkilde]
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type r1
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| posted on 16/11/04 at 05:56 PM |
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ted,
my friend was quite light, but not under 110 lbs. he was about 168 lbs.
i take your point about the technique not really being suitable for an amateur build, though.
what about a welded chassis, but using different materials? how about 304 stainless? might cost more to start with, but doesn't need acid
etching and powder coating and wax injection and so on. probably end up cheaper in the long run, eh?
dom.
[Edited on 16/11/04 by type r1]
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Peteff
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| posted on 16/11/04 at 06:26 PM |
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doesn't need acid etching and powder coating and wax injection and so on
What does need all that? A locost, wire brushed with a coat of primer and some gloss on it, should last at least 20 years. I think you're
getting a bit carried away here.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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andkilde
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| posted on 16/11/04 at 08:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by type r1
what about a welded chassis, but using different materials? how about 304 stainless? might cost more to start with, but doesn't need acid
etching and powder coating and wax injection and so on. probably end up cheaper in the long run, eh?
dom.
[Edited on 16/11/04 by type r1]
Stainless is really quite dear and has a few properties that work against it.
For one it work hardens more readily than mild steel which leads to stress cracks etc. It is also a fair bit heavier. Their may also be some localized
embrittlement issues at the weld zone similar to other alloy steels (ie. 4130 which requires heat treat after welding), I'm not too sure on this
one though.
I have read that stainless is easier to weld, probably because it's not so likely to be corroded.
I'm certainly not against glued or rivetted construction -- the glued and rivetted floor and side panels of a Locost provide substantial
stiffness improvement to the chassis for instance.
I've actually considered building a folded ally chassis myself but the issues around suspension pickups put me off.
Perhaps, taking a page from the Mini, doing a central monocoque tub with bolt on subframes would be a viable project for a homebuilder/designer. Sort
of a best of both worlds approach.
Cheers, Ted
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type r1
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| posted on 16/11/04 at 09:28 PM |
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paddy,
i guess only time will tell how long your chassis lasts, eh?
dom.
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kb58
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| posted on 17/11/04 at 01:33 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andkilde
...For one it work hardens more readily than mild steel which leads to stress cracks etc. It is also a fair bit heavier.... Cheers, Ted
Huh? Stainless is the same weight as mild steel. Don't know about the other properties.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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krlthms
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| posted on 17/11/04 at 03:13 AM |
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The red stuff looks similar to that used in Lotus Elise assembly. However, in the Elise the glue is only used in certain joints; it is not very
suitable for joints that experience frequent temperature fluctuations (they become er unglued). Also, the red glue needs special curing
conditions (200 degrees C for a couple of hours).
I would think that superglue would not be good for this application because it does not have “body”; it is only good for applications where the joint
is a tight fit, such as a broken cup. It is used following episiotomy: the cutting of the perineum (the bit between the vagina and anus) during
childbirth. For gluing large, relatively coarsely finished bits of metal I would use some form of epoxy.
Incidentally, superglue is perfectly safe to use on wounds; it polymerizes immediately on contact with moisture. It does give off cyanide gas
(hydrogen cyanide); maybe if you burn it. It gives off acetic acid (vinegar); you can smell it the next time you use this glue (don’t get your nose
too close).
Coming back to gluing Locost chassis together, have a look at Erwin Dekkers’ site (http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7630/index.html); he has built
an aluminum framed Locost and used Araldite glue to assemble body parts.
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 17/11/04 at 12:36 PM |
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There are specialised epoxy based adhesives for this type of bonding - the key is surface area. I would not endorse using adhesive to joint 22/25 mm
box section steel tube chassis.
If you do, can I watch your first run
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 17/11/04 at 01:15 PM |
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ref superglue......
here
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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Peteff
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| posted on 17/11/04 at 02:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by type r1
paddy,
i guess only time will tell how long your chassis lasts, eh?
dom.
It'd been on the road 5 years with no problems and no sign of rust so far mate, I think it'll last me out.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 17/11/04 at 02:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kb58
Huh? Stainless is the same weight as mild steel. Don't know about the other properties.
Stainless is 'heavier' (denser) than mild steel, but not by a large margin. Mild steel is around 7.8g/cc, stainless (304) about 8.0g/cc.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 17/11/04 at 03:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by protofj
ref superglue......
here
Very interesting... 
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