niceperson709
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| posted on 21/3/05 at 06:04 AM |
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Ah it is good to see my idea in the metal and I think it looks really good , the essense of good design is simplicity and elegance . Good work Mr
Avoneer !!!! 
Best wishes
Iain
Best wishes IAIN
life is not the rehearsal , it's the show so don't sit there thinking about it DO IT NOW
http://iainseven.wordpress.com/
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Mix
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| posted on 21/3/05 at 07:26 AM |
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I'm a bit late to comment but Wimmera has been right all along IMO.
As constructed the pivot axis of the brackets if they are welded directly to the LA LB tubes will converge towards the front 
Not an insurmountable problem just make sure you use a jig to ensure that the pairs of brackets end up parallel to the chassis centre line.
Don't be tempted to clamp and weld flush to the L tubes.
Mick
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niceperson709
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| posted on 21/3/05 at 07:40 AM |
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"I'm a bit late to comment but Wimmera has been right all along IMO.
As constructed the pivot axis of the brackets if they are welded directly to the LA LB tubes will converge towards the front "
sorry mate but you are totally wrong !the sides of the assembly will be parralell to the center line of the carif they have been made flat in the same
way that the ones in the book are parralell to the centerline . The whole point of the exercise is to make construction easier with out altering the
fundementals of alignment . I think that both you confusing the inclination of the whole assembly with a change of the anglarity of the La /Lb tubes
.
best wishes
Iain
Best wishes IAIN
life is not the rehearsal , it's the show so don't sit there thinking about it DO IT NOW
http://iainseven.wordpress.com/
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Mix
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| posted on 21/3/05 at 07:57 AM |
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I think you'll find that if you think about it the sides will indeed be parallel to the centre line when the L assembly is perpendicular to the
base line. However as you tilt the L assembly to the rear but keep the wishbone brackets parallel to the base line their pivot axis converges to the
front.
Imagine the extreme case of laying the L assembly flat, a bracket with it's pivot axis parallel to the base line would also have the pivot axis
parallel to the LA / LB tube.
I rest my case.... I think 
Mick
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WIMMERA
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| posted on 21/3/05 at 10:30 AM |
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Suggest you have a think about that Iain, easy enough to prove visually with a couple of match box's and a right angle set square.
Wimmera
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Peteff
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| posted on 21/3/05 at 11:12 AM |
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Time for a fat weld I think .
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Avoneer
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| posted on 21/3/05 at 12:45 PM |
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Right, for whatever reason, the square sections are ever so not quite parallel at the top (too hard to visualise the physics).
Not that bad though as the top front bone brackets will only have to be angled by about 1mm at the front to remain parallel.
Will be attempting to fit the brackets next week so will let you all know what happens.
As for makind the "L" section - boy it was so bloody easy.
Pat...
[Edited on 21/3/05 by Avoneer]
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Mix
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| posted on 21/3/05 at 12:50 PM |
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Just to try and clarify.
All of the brackets mounted on the L tubes will have to be angled out slightly at the front.
As Pete says, 'time for a fat weld'
As long as you are aware of the situation you will easily overcome it.
Mick
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Avoneer
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| posted on 26/3/05 at 06:30 PM |
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Right - update time.
Yes, the front brackets are all slightly angled, but only by around 1 - 1.5mm.
Fat weld time as suggested?
Isn't too difficult to rotate the uprights a little bit though, but may be more hassle than it's worth.
As for the camber in relation to my 4" recline - it looks good will all the brackets in the centre of the uprights. FU1 and FU2 to cut and fit
yet, but I can do them to suit.
The top ball joint centre is approximately 50 mm towards the rear of the car in relation to the bottom one. Does this sound about right, as the top
bone can be moved about another 10mm back if necessary.
Cheers,
Pat...
 
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Avoneer
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| posted on 26/3/05 at 06:30 PM |
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Ariel pic:
 
Rescued attachment ArielPic.JPG
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Avoneer
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| posted on 26/3/05 at 06:30 PM |
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Side view:
 
Rescued attachment SideView.JPG
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niceperson709
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| posted on 26/3/05 at 08:53 PM |
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Looking good pat from the photos it looks as if your side pieces would be best with a little tweeking while it is still just tacked better now than
when fully welded .
Best wishes
Iain
Best wishes IAIN
life is not the rehearsal , it's the show so don't sit there thinking about it DO IT NOW
http://iainseven.wordpress.com/
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WIMMERA
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| posted on 27/3/05 at 06:50 AM |
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50mm is more than twice what you need for 5.5 degrees of castor, as far as filling the gap between the bracket and L tube, what have you got against
doing the job properly ?
Wimmera
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Mix
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| posted on 27/3/05 at 08:39 AM |
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50mm balljoint displacement equates to 13.1 degrees of castor 
Mick
Guess we were correct then Niceperson 
Mick
[Edited on 27/3/05 by Mix]
[Edited on 27/3/05 by Mix]
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Peteff
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| posted on 27/3/05 at 09:40 AM |
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Have you measured that Pat? it doesn't look that drastic. I did mine with 4" lean on it and it came out nearer what it should be. I made my
wishbones so the top outers lined up with the bottom inners and used steel strips instead of wood to line stuff up.
 
Rescued attachment SideView.JPG
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Avoneer
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| posted on 27/3/05 at 10:23 AM |
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Right, with the inner edge of the lower bracket in line vertically with the front edge of the upper bracket, the top ball joint is approximately 6mm
behind the bottom one - this should just about be right shouldn't it?
And if it is right, both brackets fall right in the centre of LA and LB.
Pat....JPG)
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Mix
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| posted on 27/3/05 at 11:12 AM |
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Assuming your ball joint centre to centre distance is about 220mm you will require an offset rearwards of 22mm to give a castor angle of 5.6
degrees
Mick
6mm will only give 1.54 degrees castor
[Edited on 27/3/05 by Mix]
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Avoneer
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| posted on 27/3/05 at 11:58 AM |
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But if I move it back so it is 20mm behind the bottom ball joint, the edges of the brackets don't line up anymore and the front upper wishbone
bracket is hanging off the front upright - strange when the upright is 4" further back at the top.
I'm all foncused now!
Pat...
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WIMMERA
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| posted on 27/3/05 at 12:49 PM |
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If the top bones are the same as the book they have 3/8" offset, are they on the right way or arse about, you might have to move the bottom
bracket forward, it's not necessary for the edges of brackets to line up
Wimmera
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Mix
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| posted on 27/3/05 at 01:58 PM |
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Pat
I suggest you lock your threaded rods to your jig with locknuts.
Then position and lock the brackets the same way so as to achieve the correct offset.
Finally offer up to the chassis and position for the best fit.
Wimmera's point re the symetry of the top bone is correct, have you got it fitted in the correct orientation??
Mick
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 27/3/05 at 05:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Avoneer
But if I move it back so it is 20mm behind the bottom ball joint, the edges of the brackets don't line up anymore and the front upper wishbone
bracket is hanging off the front upright - strange when the upright is 4" further back at the top.
I'm all foncused now!
Pat...
Unfortunately this is down to the incorrect measurements in the book. The required 22mm does indeed move the brackets enough that they are
"hanging off". The ideal solution is to redesign the front wishbones to correct this, but given that you already have servicable
wishbones you may not want to do this. Alternatively you could add an extra tube in to support the brackets as I have:
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Avoneer
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| posted on 27/3/05 at 05:59 PM |
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Will re-check everything and hopefully with the 4" lean, that should cover the hanging off the bracket scenario.
Will update when I get some more gas.
Pat...
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