Theshed
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| posted on 29/5/11 at 08:15 PM |
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Yes......
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compositepro
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| posted on 29/5/11 at 08:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
quote:
Originally posted by littlefeller
as we are talking alternative chassis, anyone else done anything different 
Don't think so on here - at least none that have been finished that I can think of, but Autospeed has some articles on more adventurous
techniques if you hunt around.
e.g. An "origami" monocoque construction using grp honeycomb.
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_110989/article.html
i love it when someone takes a different angle on things
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littlefeller
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| posted on 29/5/11 at 09:37 PM |
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i never do things the exepted way great link
[Edited on 29/5/11 by littlefeller]
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 06:43 AM |
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I've seen that article before and always thought it would be a nice way to do a hillclimber. The same issues with load spreading prevail though!
My Build Thread
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 09:31 AM |
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its pretty much the same stuff as teklam www.teklam.com
teklam is available in 25mm thickness , so could be bonded in between the basic square section frame , a hybrid monocoque .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 10:15 AM |
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quote:
40 years experience...that must be one long list of companies
No, a long list of build projects. Like civil construction, you finish one project and move on to another. And then you get an offer to work for a
consulting co. and life becomes civilised. 
Cheers,
Nev.
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compositepro
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 02:18 PM |
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civil construction? I was under the impression you had consulted for motorsports or yacht builders?
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 03:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
quote:
40 years experience...that must be one long list of companies
No, a long list of build projects. Like civil construction, you finish one project and move on to another. And then you get an offer to
work for a consulting co. and life becomes civilised.
Cheers,
Nev.
Can you not comprehend plain english??? LIKE-Similar to but not the same.
LIKE CIVIL CONSTRUCTION!!!!! I have a son who is a civil engineer. They tend to build a bridge or railway or highway, then the job is finished
and they have to get another job!! Then when the wanderlust disappears, they get a steady job with a consulting co.
What do you think I do, make carbon fibre bridges and fibreglass roads?? Mind you, there is a lot more composite design and fibres in concrete these
days than most would be aware of.
Cheers,
Nev.
[Edited on 30/5/11 by Neville Jones]
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compositepro
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 03:11 PM |
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I have trouble with forums there lots of stuff that gets written that can be taken out of context
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littlefeller
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| posted on 30/5/11 at 05:17 PM |
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have you got a composite design in mind? what you thinking?
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compositepro
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| posted on 2/6/11 at 06:20 PM |
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i have a lot of ideas for this ,however i mentioned previously that usually the hobby car builders are usually quite inventive and there doesn't
seem to be so many chassis using composites this leads me to a few conclusions but i'm pretty sure a monocoque wouldn't be beyond the
realms of very possible even at this level of car building.
I was keen to see the responses but like i alluded to earlier from looking at whats around the kit car forums and there seems to be two direct ways
of looking at it
without going into the square is better than round debate and thats that steel is simple and relatively easy to work with
but im pretty sure with the right techniques you could improve on whats about at the moment (improvement being one of those very subjective words)
Theres definitely a lack of understanding in materials other than steel and i suppose that brings steel even closer to the fore when it comes to
building these things and reinforces the other materials get discarded approach to building these cars...just because you can doesnt mean you have to
but sometimes its just nice to experiment with something else
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littlefeller
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| posted on 2/6/11 at 07:34 PM |
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[Edited on 2/6/11 by littlefeller] not sure where the last post went? i would be intrested to have ago, but i dont know how. been playing around with
different chassis designs trying to settle on one direction. now gone back to steel tube but exploring different construction techniques
[Edited on 2/6/11 by littlefeller]
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littlefeller
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| posted on 5/6/11 at 07:43 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by compositepro
I have trouble with forums there lots of stuff that gets written that can be taken out of context
By littlefeller2010 at 2011-06-05
found this on another page, gona keep it for other forums
[Edited on 5/6/11 by littlefeller]
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iank
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| posted on 5/6/11 at 07:52 AM |
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FWIW the original is here http://xkcd.com/386/ along with lots of other good ones.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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littlefeller
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| posted on 5/6/11 at 08:06 AM |
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were nearly on page 5 and still no answer, there must be a maths genius on here somewhere who can end this.
anyone else got a cool idea for a chassis
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Mike Wood
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| posted on 5/6/11 at 12:24 PM |
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Hi
Some early Marcos cars had wooden chassis bonded into grp bodies - the first Marcos ('gullwing'?) and the series pruduction Marcos GT with
a range of engines. Jem Marsh's book on Marcos has some interesting design detail sketches by the designer Frank Costin on attaching suspension
and other items to the wooden chassis box members. See: http://home.swipnet.se/~w-90803/wooden.htm Marcos did switch to using steel tube chassis -
probably due to cost in labour and materials of wooden chassis.
Worth noting that wooden chassis often include lots of fabricated metal attachment brackets and components, including steel tube subframes for
suspension mounting. Time and skill needed to fabricate these.
Clan Crusaders had grp monocoque shells which included marine plywood sections, mainly in forming part of the structural side cills and the rear
bulkhead.
A lot of inspiration for wooden car structures can come from aircraft practice. Some small wooden aircraft have wooden fuselage structures akin to
steel tube spaceframes (which many light aircraft use, such as the Pitts Special, as do racing cars, as well as stressed skin aluminium monocoques -
'spam cans' such as Cessna 172 and commercial ailrliners e.g. Boeing 737) sides skinned with plywood and the whole structure covered in
fabric that is tautened to become part of the structure with the use of a fabric cellulose-based paint ('aircraft dope') Google
'Evans VP1', 'Taylor Monoplane', 'Issacs Spitfire', 'Issacs Fury', 'Williams Flitzer' and
'Volmer Sportsman'. And there are the wooden monocoque aircraft fuselages, such as the Dehavilland Mosquito which was a wooden composite
with a balsa wood core skinned either side with plywood. Better not mention the huge and overweight Douglas Spruce Goose!
It should be possible to produce a rear engined open cockpit single or two seater racing car with a wooden central tub - using a mixture of aircraft
grade spruce or Douglas fir frame covered in marine plywood to make up box sections/pontoons as well as using larger thickness plywood for bulheads
(and gluing on aluminium sheet to make a fireproof engine structural bulkhead). But it would be easier and cheaper to make a steel tube chassis, so
you'd only pick wood to be different, if you had the skills/materials, and you could still do some metalwork.
Not sure if there are many people left that have the experience of designing with such materials (spruce and plywood), including making sure that the
structure isn't too heavy.
Even in the homebuilt aircraft area, many people are using 'plastic' composites, as well as steel tube, google 'EAA'
(Experimental Aircraft Association in USA) and the Light Aircraft Association (UK, formerly the Popular Flying Association) for info.
One last thought on wooden structures - apart from lack of wide knowledge and acceptance, the cost of materials is high, as well as time to build -
you'd only want to be using marine plywood (known quality, strength as well as good weather resistance) and aircraft grade spruce or Douglas fir
that you could strength grade. There are special high strength glues developed for wooden aircraft that would be ideal, but the temptation these days
would be to use epoxy resin. Wood is a great material to laminate grp to, unlike steel or aluminium, so the grp can be used structurally.
One of my great car disappointments was a Scimitar SST that was so heavy - nice galvanised chassis, but heavy grp body - could have had better design
of each element and integration of them. It was heavier than the Scimitar SS1 that it was developed from (just like all modern updates of car
models!)
Cheers
Mike
[Edited on 5/6/11 by Mike Wood]
[Edited on 5/6/11 by Mike Wood]
[Edited on 5/6/11 by Mike Wood]
[Edited on 5/6/11 by Mike Wood]
[Edited on 5/6/11 by Mike Wood]
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littlefeller
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| posted on 5/6/11 at 02:02 PM |
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what a cool idea. much more intresting than square v round but this thread got hijacked ages ago, and still no silly posts sugesting paper mache
any ideas on fiberglass tubes?
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compositepro
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| posted on 5/6/11 at 03:45 PM |
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A different idea altogether mike.....I was wondering about wood....mother natures very own composite material....
I just read something on titanium exhausts which was a remarkably strange article..but overall if you have money to burn and all the gear But no idea
an essential item
A ti locust frame nearly half the weight but ooo oh no half the stiffness....unless you get clever with wall and tube dziameters
the creativity of the EAA....something amazes me every time I see what those guys get up to
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indykid
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| posted on 5/6/11 at 04:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by compositepro
A ti locust frame nearly half the weight but ooo oh no half the stiffness....unless you get clever with wall and tube diameters
I'd love to see it done as a technical exercise, but I'd hate to see the bill for the argon!
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 5/6/11 at 06:02 PM |
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wood doesnt fatigue either , if it doesnt rot .......
the composite chassis /monocoque suits a mid engined design much better than a seven design .
the trick to to bonding grp or composite onto tube frames is to coat it with polyurethane varnish beforehand .
its how i bonded my kevlar in .
oh , and yes , you could use pultruded tubes but , youl have to do lots of digging on finding the best joining method , and possibly GRP isnt the best
material in a tube , carbon would be , since you want stiffness not flexibililty .
[Edited on 5/6/11 by Volvorsport]
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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littlefeller
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| posted on 5/6/11 at 07:38 PM |
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anyone got any info on wooden chassis?
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 5/6/11 at 08:36 PM |
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http://home.swipnet.se/~w-90803/
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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