alistairolsen
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| posted on 8/1/09 at 02:45 AM |
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Anyone used double sided tape for alloy panelling?
Has anyone (apart from Bob C) used double sided tapes such as 3M VHB tapes to attach their alloy panelling?
Has anyone completely substituted this for the rivets?
Any other adhesives on the market?
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RK
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| posted on 8/1/09 at 02:47 AM |
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I used velcro for my transmission tunnel sides, which was glued on the panel and the frame. But not used it for the other panels. I used the tried and
true Sikaflex for the other body panels, reinforced with rivets.
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mad4x4
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| posted on 8/1/09 at 07:14 AM |
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My tunnel is self tapping screws with Tigerseal where as all others are Tigerseal and rivets.
Scot's do it better in Kilts.
MK INDY's Don't Self Centre Regardless of MK Setting !
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BenB
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| posted on 8/1/09 at 10:51 AM |
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I wouldn't!!!!
Don't forget that the ali panels do add a fair wallop of structural integrity to the chassis (especially when bonded + rivetted). Sticking them
on with double sided tape might look nice (ie not rivets) but it might effect the torsional rigidity. I know some DST is pretty strong stuff but
I'd still want to rivet it....
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iank
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| posted on 8/1/09 at 10:54 AM |
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Liam did, sure he'll be along at some point to give an update on how it's going/gone.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=27045
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 8/1/09 at 11:30 AM |
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Thats what I meant, I was thinking of sticking on the floor, then sticking on the side panels onto the sides, and then onto the floor and top tubesby
folding them over so there is a 50mm bead of tape the whole way around.
Im doing cymtriks chassis mods so the round tubes in the side will be square and can be stuck too.
Liam, if youre on this thread, did you heat the workspace when you stuck it on? How did you clamp it, or apply pressure?
Cheers
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neilj37
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| posted on 8/1/09 at 12:23 PM |
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Using sticky tape sounds a bit Heath Robinson to me !!
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 8/1/09 at 12:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by BenB
I wouldn't!!!!
Don't forget that the ali panels do add a fair wallop of structural integrity to the chassis (especially when bonded + rivetted). Sticking them
on with double sided tape might look nice (ie not rivets) but it might effect the torsional rigidity. I know some DST is pretty strong stuff but
I'd still want to rivet it....
in theory certainly if the tape can provide the same shear strength as the number of rivets in the same length then it is an improvement due to the
load spreading!
It will also be lighter, easier to apply and cleaner looking.
Im just worried about it peeling tbh
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kb58
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| posted on 9/1/09 at 01:08 AM |
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Everytime a thread like this pops up as THE solution, no one mentions that some (many?) adhesives dissolve in fluids commonly used in our cars:
petrol, oil, brake fluid, coolant. And since liquids wick along seams when spilt it seems like it could be trouble.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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RK
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| posted on 9/1/09 at 01:48 AM |
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Ah yes, the voice of reason raises his head again! Keep it up. I always enjoy your comments, especially the ones I can understand.
How much is that book of yours anyways?
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kb58
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| posted on 9/1/09 at 02:31 AM |
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Book info here
About the adhesive, I'm not saying it shouldn't be used, just that you have to understand the stuff. Maybe there's adhesives out
there that resist car-related liquids - though that seems like a tall order.
After drilling, um, 2500 rivet holes in my last car I'm very interested in bonding on panels. But as said I'm concerned that adhesives
aren't the be-all solution. I think the panels will still need a few rivets in case the adhesive lets go. Especially in the corners to prevent
peel.
[Edited on 1/9/09 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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wilkingj
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| posted on 9/1/09 at 11:19 AM |
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Another vote for Bond and Rivet the panels that will never need to come out.
You will need the extra strength this gives.
Put in an access flap in the panel eg for the gearbox filler plug area etc.
I just cut a hole, and put a plate over it using rivnuts for the gearbox plug.
Dont compromise on any strengthening that you gain by bonding and riveting.
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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Liam
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| posted on 9/1/09 at 06:57 PM |
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Thanks for the plug, iank!
The 3M VHB tape is awesome stuff. It's proper structural adhesive - the tape is just a carrier really. Good enough for busses and train
carriages etc etc, so good enough for my locost.
More details and other people's experience in the thread Iank linked to. I didn't heat anything up (but it was done on a hot
summer's day) or clamp it - just lined it up correctly and pressed it on making sure it was all well stuck. Don't recall the instructions
asking for anything else!
Couple of points worth making:
1. I have used rivets in all corners to resist peeling, and a few elsewhere, as a precaution.
2. My chassis is designed to be sufficiently stiff (i.e. very  ) without a contribution from panels. Having said that I would expect panels bonded
with this stuff would contribute to stiffness of a structure at least as well as rivetted panels. Also my seats mount on steel tubes (part of the
chassis) and are not supported by the 18swg ally floor panel.
3. Pretty much all my taped joints are now hidden by seam sealer/underseal which should protect them from nasty fluids. I dont intend to pour brake
fluid, petrol or coolant into my cabin anyway!
Hope that helps. I'd highly recommend the stuff and use it again.
Liam
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 10/1/09 at 02:16 PM |
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cheers, I have steel seat mounts, mounting them to alloy is stupid IMO, theres a reason the FIA wont let you mount seats to steel floors in cars!
I reckon the shear stiffness of the bond has to be at least as good as a rivetted panel
I know what you mean about fluids, I was going to seam sel all the edges anyway, just to provide a radius for painting it properly! Should be ok.
Cheers
[Edited on 10/1/09 by alistairolsen]
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