bigtime
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| posted on 24/6/13 at 01:28 AM |
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Riveted or bolted plug-in joints or corner gussets or brackets in case a weld fails?
Either plug in joints (also being welded) like those on bicycle fames.
Maybe some joints or additional plates/tubes INSIDE the beams?
What about some reinforcing brackets or gussets, Which besides being bolted or riveted would also be welded for additional safety?
Bolts or rivets might help keeping the joint together if welds were to fail.
Would those also help keeping the frame beams in place before welding?
It might sound like wearing both belts and suspenders ...while actually wearing an overall!
But please be patient with me.
Like many beginners I am afraid of broken welds.
I think it is better to be cautious and not overly corageous and have an accident not only harming me and/or others but giving Locosts a bad
reputation.
Thanks. Really
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 24/6/13 at 03:40 AM |
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If your weldings that bad that you don't trust it. DON'T WELD IT! These chassis don't just fall apart if welded correctly.
[Edited on 24/6/13 by Ben_Copeland]
Ben
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Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts for all your bodywork needs!
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dhutch
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| posted on 24/6/13 at 04:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
If your welding is that bad that you don't trust it. DON'T WELD IT! These chassis don't just fall apart if welded correctly.
To be honest, this man speaks the truth.
I personally put myself in the position that while im quite capable at welding, do a lot of work on the boat and bracketry for the car, because its
thin wall, has to be right first time, and needs to be jigged/true/etc, if i was building a new car I would pay someone to produce the chassis for me
or more likely buy a commercially available one which is the same thing really.
Daniel
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T66
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| posted on 24/6/13 at 05:01 AM |
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I get where your coming from, if your welding is not inspiring confidence in your chassis, then stop and either do a night class or find someone to
weld it up for you.
To be over engineering chassis joints for fear of weld failure isn't ideal, far better off stepping back and sorting yourself out a training
course.
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Slimy38
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| posted on 24/6/13 at 07:27 AM |
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My friend suggested similar reinforcements, not out of concern for a failed weld but for stiffening the chassis. The problem I saw was that
you'd move the transmission of forces away from the corners, effectively turning your nice triangulated chassis into a series of squares (quite
misshapen squares, but square nonetheless).
You have to also consider that any material removed to bolt anything in place is then material that isn't holding the car together. And neither
a bolt nor a rivet will be anywhere near as strong as the equivalent weld or chassis bar.
Do some welds (preferably on scrap metal), then post pictures up and we can suggest improvements. Or do the evening class, it certainly worked for me
and was the best money I ever spent. Welding really isn't that hard, you just need to avoid some very common pitfalls.
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designer
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| posted on 24/6/13 at 07:51 AM |
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Like Ben says; if you don't trust your welds, don't do it.
Don't forget that even a good looking weld can be a bad one!
The Robin Hood 2B has internal sleeves, but I think they are more for alignment than strength.
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Not Anumber
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| posted on 24/6/13 at 10:32 AM |
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Ah, yes you are the gentleman who suggested using 4" section chassis tubing.
I can understand your concerns but people have been building chassis for many years with standard welds and largely with standard 1” section steel.
It could be worth spending an hour or two using the search facility and looking back through the many years of posts and threads on the forum about
chassis design.
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 24/6/13 at 10:47 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Not Anumber
Ah, yes you are the gentleman who suggested using 4" section chassis tubing.
I can understand your concerns but people have been building chassis for many years with standard welds and largely with standard 1” section steel.
It could be worth spending an hour or two using the search facility and looking back through the many years of posts and threads on the forum about
chassis design.
He's posted 3 questions of similar standard. Got quite a few answers but never bothered to respond.
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts for all your bodywork needs!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 24/6/13 at 11:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
My friend suggested similar reinforcements, not out of concern for a failed weld but for stiffening the chassis. The problem I saw was that
you'd move the transmission of forces away from the corners, effectively turning your nice triangulated chassis into a series of squares (quite
misshapen squares, but square nonetheless).
I suspect that overly stiff corners would just cause stress concentrations further along the tubes and actually fail faster 
In fact for those that can do it TIG or Bronze Welding are good options for a lightweight tube frame and they actually give more flex at the
joints
(this allows the joints to behave more like pins which releases some of the stress concentrated at the ends, the diagonal braces then keep the chassis
stiff by acting in pure tension/compression which is much better as bending/twisting is the worst kind of loading)
Another good alternative to stiffen the chassis is to design it more like a plate/box girder by using the panels as a stressed skin – this can be done
with alloy sheet riveted bonded on with some high strength PU adhesive (the skin does a similar job to the diagonal bracings)
Most seven style chassis use a combination of these methods
-
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PhillipM
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| posted on 24/6/13 at 02:04 PM |
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My chassis is made out of mainly 1.75" 1.5mm and 2mm wall tubing, and that's hit more trees, rocks, bankings than you'd believe, and
even a couple of concrete fenceposts, and it's still going strong.
Gussets aren't a bad idea at highly loaded nodes to spread stress, but you have to be careful, a badly placed straight gusset can just
concentrate the load on the top of the tube and kink it.
[Edited on 24/6/13 by PhillipM]
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Not Anumber
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| posted on 24/6/13 at 05:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by PhillipM
that's hit more trees, rocks, bankings than you'd believe, and even a couple of concrete fenceposts, and it's still going strong.
I guess your not planning posting in the For Sale section anytime soon then. 
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PhillipM
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| posted on 24/6/13 at 10:19 PM |
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I hope not, she's only just nearing the end of her rebuild! And it's not exactly your normal roadgoing kit car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEq1enypU6g
[Edited on 24/6/13 by PhillipM]
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