Simon
|
| posted on 27/5/20 at 04:57 PM |
|
|
Coolant pipes in chassis tubes
I am building mid engine Beetle and having started fabricating the trans tunnel (50mm box) am thinking that with coolant pipes, fuel lines, brake
lines, wiring and shifter cables it might be a bit congested so was toying with the idea or running the coolant pipes (35mm id stainless) inside the
box section.
Now, is my concern that the hot water pipe might cause the box section to expand/contract unfavourably reasonable or a bit ocd? Or should I run brake
hoses, wiring and fuel line inside the box and keep the coolant pipes up centre of tunnel, which could be left open to elements at the bottom
Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
harmchar
|
| posted on 27/5/20 at 05:01 PM |
|
|
I personally wouldn't run anything in the chassis tubes. How you going to check the condition of anything you put in there. Only time
you'll know there's an issue is when coolant starts pissing out the end of the tube.
Just a thought.
|
|
|
steve m
|
| posted on 27/5/20 at 05:18 PM |
|
|
No one picked up on the point that Beetles are air cooled ?
I presume the OP is using a different water cooled engine than a 20hp Beetle engine
I can not see a problem with running coolant pipes in a tunnel, as long as they were clamped well in
and possibly insulated ?
If I was to consider this, I would use a constant uncut tube, with flexi hoses or similar at each end that would be serviceable
if required,
steve
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
|
|
|
smart51
|
| posted on 27/5/20 at 05:35 PM |
|
|
The space inside a big box section is dead space, why not run something through it? I'd make sure you could get the coolant pipe out when the
car is fully built but otherwise go for it.
|
|
|
russbost
|
| posted on 27/5/20 at 06:18 PM |
|
|
we run main battery cable, clutch & brake hoses thro' the top tubes on the Furore, saves loads of faffing with clipping up & nothing to
inspect. If I were going to run cooling pipes that way I'd want one solid aluminium pipe from front to rear & the ability to slide it in/out
from either front or rear of tube once fully built, as long as you insulate it from vibration/chaffing inside the tube (we rubber grommet our pipes
etc) then no reason not to.
The expansion due to heat in a coolant tube would be pretty irrelevant
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
|
rusty nuts
|
| posted on 27/5/20 at 07:34 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
No one picked up on the point that Beetles are air cooled ?
I presume the OP is using a different water cooled engine than a 20hp Beetle engine
I can not see a problem with running coolant pipes in a tunnel, as long as they were clamped well in
and possibly insulated ?
If I was to consider this, I would use a constant uncut tube, with flexi hoses or similar at each end that would be serviceable
if required,
steve [/quote
Modern Beetles are water cooled!
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 27/5/20 at 08:04 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
No one picked up on the point that Beetles are air cooled ?
I presume the OP is using a different water cooled engine than a 20hp Beetle engine
I can not see a problem with running coolant pipes in a tunnel, as long as they were clamped well in
and possibly insulated ?
If I was to consider this, I would use a constant uncut tube, with flexi hoses or similar at each end that would be serviceable
if required,
steve [/quote
Modern Beetles are water cooled!
Modern Beetles are Golfs in dappy outfits IMHO.
|
|
|
gremlin1234
|
| posted on 27/5/20 at 08:46 PM |
|
|
as far as I remember, the 'RAC blue book' prohibits things inside chassis rails, since they can't be inspected. so you would not be
able to join any race series
I found it
quote:
5.20.12. Not carry or pass any liquids or gases, other than air
at atmospheric pressure, in or through any tubes comprising
part of the chassis structure.
https://www.motorsportuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Blue-Book-2020-2.pdf
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 28/5/20 at 09:14 AM |
|
|
If I were planning on racing, I would not as I don't like the uninspectable nature of it.
In reality, I'm fine with the practicalities of it and so long as it's rubber-supported down its length it will likely be fine.
Assuming the chassis sees a 100C difference in temperature from one member to the next, you might be looking at ~1mm length change between any two
members. In reality you're not likely to see the chassis tube get even close to that, so the thermal expansion will be tiny.
|
|
|
jollygreengiant
|
| posted on 28/5/20 at 10:05 AM |
|
|
For SAFETY reasons I WOULD NOT run electrical in the same tube as FUEL, BRAKE FLUID or WATER.
JMHO 
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
|
|
|
Simon
|
| posted on 28/5/20 at 05:43 PM |
|
|
Will probably just be the coolant pipes in bottom two and wiring in one of top two. Fuel and brake lines can take their chances with the gear shift
cables
|
|
|
MikeR
|
| posted on 28/5/20 at 11:19 PM |
|
|
Chapman ran client in a tube in one race car. It rusted. It was then banned. I appreciate you will be in a tube inside a tube, but how will you know
it's not leaking and rusting?
|
|
|
SteveWalker
|
| posted on 29/5/20 at 12:28 AM |
|
|
A drain hole in the outside tube will tell you if there is a leak - often used in industrial and nuclear processes.
|
|
|
Simon
|
| posted on 29/5/20 at 11:29 PM |
|
|
I'll be using stainless steel
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 30/5/20 at 04:37 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Chapman ran client in a tube in one race car. It rusted. It was then banned. I appreciate you will be in a tube inside a tube, but how will you know
it's not leaking and rusting?
Will stainless steel rust?
If it leaks, the water level will drop, easy to spot.
I'm voting it will be fine as long as there are no inaccessible joins.
|
|
|
Sam_68
|
| posted on 30/5/20 at 06:09 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Chapman ran client in a tube in one race car. It rusted. It was then banned. I appreciate you will be in a tube inside a tube, but how will you know
it's not leaking and rusting?
Not one, several Lotus race cars ran coolant through their chassis tubes - all the Lotus 22, 23 and (I'm pretty sure) 24 models did it, for a
start.
You can see the 'tails' for connecting the rubber coolant pipes that linked to the engine and radiator on this (replica) 23 chassis:
The tubes don't rust if you have antifreeze/rust inhibitor in the coolant, of course. Back in the day, you weren't allowed to use
antifreeze in racing cars for fear of spillages making the track slippy.
Several spaceframe racers (including the 23 - note that there are 2 pairs of outlets front and rear) also used the chassis tubes to run oil through
(which might be more useful for a Beetle engine), but the problem there was ensuring no contamination, if you blew the engine up.
In both cases, the trick is to ensure that the pipes that are carrying the fluids are one-piece and continuous, so that they don't leak if a
weld cracks.
That aside, and racing rules notwithstanding, I don't think it's an entirely bad idea.
|
|
|
.jpg)
