Avoneer
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 12:38 AM |
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"L" section again
Hi,
Can anyone forsee any problems if I make the top and bottom bar of the "L" in 25mm round?
It enables the whole "L" structure to be made flat, the two upright sections remain parallel to the centre line and you can rotate the
whole "L" section from 3-4" back to suit the suspension setup.
Not bothered about having to make all the fishmouths as they are the exact same diameter as my half round file!
Cheers,
Pat....jpg)
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Avoneer
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 12:40 AM |
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And when making it, all I have to worry about is the length of the two round bars and that they are parallel with each other - and 13" apart.
The square section can be just made to fit without following the book dimensions for them.
Pat...
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dmottaway
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 02:59 AM |
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looks like a good idea - certainly simplifies this stumbling point. however, they are more than 13" apart.
looked at from the side, the top surface IS 13 inches above the bottom surface, but the tubes are NOT arranged vertically, there is a
three inch offset.
Again, from the side, draw a horizontal line through the center of the bottom tube, a vertical line through the center of the upper tube, and then
connect the center points. You will have a triangle that is 3 inches across the base, 12 inches tall, and has a hypotenuse (center to center) of
slightly less than 12.4 inches.
So, if the two pieces of wood we see in the pic are 13.4 inches apart, all should be real close.
I hope this is clear, and moreso, I hope my concerns are valid.
dave
[Edited on 19/3/05 by dmottaway]
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WIMMERA
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 06:34 AM |
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I think you might be onto something here Pat, are you going to make F1, F2 and J1,J2 3/8" longer to allow for the fishmouth that they will need
to connect up. I agree with dmottaway re the length
Wimmera
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Jonr
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 07:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by dmottaway
.
You will have a triangle that is 3 inches across the base, 12 inches tall, and has a hypotenuse (center to center) of slightly less than 12.4
inches.
I see what you did there!
Ythe hypotenuse is 13.4" center to center but 12.4" inside OD to OD
So the jig should be set to 14.4" wide (outside OD to OD(13.4" + tube radius twice) and cut the RHS to 13.4 ish to allow for the
fishmouths?
square of the hypotenuse (longest side) is equal to the sum of the squares of the 2 shorter sided
[Edited on 19/3/05 by Jonr]
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WIMMERA
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 08:20 AM |
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I think we may have a problem Pat, when you set it up on the incline the outside face that the brackets attach to is no longer parallel to the centre
line (I think) not a huge problem I suppose just a matter of figuring out how much twist to put into LB LA before you weld it up, you get the same
thing on a normal L frame, the LB LA have to be twisted a shade to square them up to the centre line.
Hoping I'm wrong
Wimmera
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907
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 08:27 AM |
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Hi All,
I have just looked at this in the "book"
and am amazed with Ron's obsession with
wood for jigs.
Surely, an offset of 75mm is just 3 offcuts
of box, on top of each other. You'll have
loads of the stuff laying about, ( or in your
scrap bin if you are a tidy chap. I'm not. )
It's hard to find a bit of wood 75 / 76mm
thick anyway. It will be 3" planed, which is
about 70mm.
Anyway, back to the subject.
Don't forget that the ends of J1, J2, F1 &
F2 will become half fish mouth, half square
and the ends of S & T will need fish
mouths as well.
I hate to harp on about it, but these parts
are so easy to cut with a band saw, in box
section that is.
Paul G
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Avoneer
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 08:51 AM |
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Hi Guys,
I though the 13" was the height when the whole "L" section is already leaned over?
No problem making it lightly taller though.
Yep, I know I'll have to fish mouth the "J"'s and the "F"'s and a few others, but I have an obsessin with
round bar and don't mind doing it!
The uprights should remain dead parallel as they are only rotating on the axis of the bottom round.
No one has forseen any major problems though....yet....
Cheers,
Pat...
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Avoneer
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 08:57 AM |
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P.S. It wasn't my original idea.
It was briefly mentioned in this post by niceperson709.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=23639#
Pat...
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Avoneer
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 09:12 AM |
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Thinking abour this 13" - it will always be 13" whatever angle it is at won't it????
As I am going to mount the top round 4" behind the bottom (due to the wishbone bracket scenario) all I'll have to do is make sure that the
top round bar is the same height as the top of the chassis bars when it's leant back 4"????
Pat...
[Edited on 19/3/05 by Avoneer]
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WIMMERA
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 09:14 AM |
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Yes it is only rotating around the bottom tube, but the bracket lies horizontal viewed from the side thats where the problem may be, it's
attached to sloping plane.
Wimmera
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Avoneer
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 10:08 AM |
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Sorry, yes, I can see the wood through the trees now - just me being thick.
Pat...
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Jonr
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 10:18 AM |
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the 13" will always be the same as this is the height of the chassis, though if you push the angle back a bit then the lengths of LA, LB are
going to change.
So if your going for 4" of difference in length between he top and bottom of the chassis that changes the length of the hypotenuse.
so
square of the hypotenuse = sum of the square of the 2 shorter sides
so
13" squared =169 - chassis height (height of the triangle)
+
4" Squared = 16 - difference in length between top and bottom rails (Base of the triangle)
4"
= 185
square root of 185= 13.6"
that's center to center so you will have to add an inch of the tubing (2 half inches, 2 x radius)
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Avoneer
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 11:57 AM |
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So that would be an extra inch on each of the two square uprights ones (if I use a 4" recline)?
Cheers,
Pat...
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clbarclay
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 02:05 PM |
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I agree with WIMMERA. making tubes LC/LD out of round still leaves you with the problem of getting the suspension braket mounting points parallel with
the centre line, just like using square for the all the L tubes.
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dmottaway
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 05:01 PM |
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how about going at it from a different angle, such as making the LA/LB tubes round and the LC/LD tubes square?
then just have to notch the ends of the horizontal members and give no regard to rotating the LA/LB tubes.
suspension brackets could be welded on in the proper orientation then gusseted for strength.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 19/3/05 at 06:32 PM |
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There is a quick and nasty way to avoid having to make fishmouths I saw it used on some some ships plant. I haven't tried it myself.
Chop a short length of 25x25x2 to form a channel section about 8mm deep and use it as a sort of quasi fishmouth welded on to the end of the tube how
good it is will depened an awful lot on the welders skill.
in ASC11 symbls it would be something like this
o]====
[Edited on 19/3/05 by britishtrident]
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WIMMERA
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| posted on 20/3/05 at 04:04 AM |
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Glad I'm 12000 miles away from that one B/S
Wimmera
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Avoneer
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| posted on 20/3/05 at 09:11 AM |
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Anyway,
I've done it with round top and bottom and a 4" recline.
I'll post pics later and keep you all infromed, but it looks good so far and looks a lot tidier than using box section.
Pat...
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Peteff
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| posted on 20/3/05 at 10:08 AM |
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I made mine in square with a 4" lean instead of the 3" in the book. I made the chassis 1" taller as well. It will put your fu tubes
further back as well and may affect where your damper bracket goes on your bottom wishbone but I haven't got to that bit yet.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Avoneer
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| posted on 20/3/05 at 05:53 PM |
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Right, update:
 
Rescued attachment 1.JPG
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Avoneer
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| posted on 20/3/05 at 05:54 PM |
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And this:
 
Rescued attachment 2.jpg
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britishtrident
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| posted on 20/3/05 at 06:41 PM |
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That will do nicely :-)
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Avoneer
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| posted on 20/3/05 at 08:07 PM |
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We'll just have to see what happens when I try to fit the bones!!!!
Must admit, I think it looks a lot better than using square tube for the top and bottom bars.
Pat...
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WIMMERA
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| posted on 20/3/05 at 09:01 PM |
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Looks good Pat, a good test would be to clamp a piece of tube say 2 foot long to the side of the L tube to sort of replicate a bracket and check if
it's parallel to the centre line, better to know now than after it's fully welded.
Wimmera
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