Findlay234
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| posted on 11/11/02 at 04:29 PM |
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single donor vs. or Q plates
at the moment ive got two donors,
donor A for the engine and seats,
donor B for the rear axle, wheels, loom, steering column, rear hubs, front stub axles.
donor B is RWD sierra so i can use the gearbox but there are marriage problems between it and the engine. i can buy a rwd box exactly for the engine
at the pricely sum of £85. now using all these parts in a locost its gonna be a Q plate for me.
i was thinking, the registrar office looks at the V5 logbook of the donor to check the details to see if youve used the single donor. could i
'transplant' the engine from A, with the bought gearbox, into B. Formalise the transplant with the DVLA, then use the combination stated to build
the locost.
would this give me the reg plate of the sierra in the end and not a Q plate???
cheers
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Viper
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| posted on 11/11/02 at 06:08 PM |
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What is donor A?
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Findlay234
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| posted on 11/11/02 at 10:05 PM |
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mr2 mk1
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Viper
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| posted on 11/11/02 at 10:11 PM |
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sorry mate but you won't get away with it, if it was an engine that was originaly used in the doner B car and was larger in capicity or the same you
would get away with it. But i think you might be pushing your luck...
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bsilly
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| posted on 11/11/02 at 10:20 PM |
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IF i got this right.... why dont yer put sierra engine in....get sva/reg/on the road and swap to mr2 afterwards
mainly digger drivin me
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James
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| posted on 12/11/02 at 10:44 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Findlay234
at the moment ive got two donors,
donor A for the engine and seats,
donor B for the rear axle, wheels, loom, steering column, rear hubs, front stub axles.
donor B is RWD sierra so i can use the gearbox but there are marriage problems between it and the engine. i can buy a rwd box exactly for the engine
at the pricely sum of £85. now using all these parts in a locost its gonna be a Q plate for me.
i was thinking, the registrar office looks at the V5 logbook of the donor to check the details to see if youve used the single donor. could i
'transplant' the engine from A, with the bought gearbox, into B. Formalise the transplant with the DVLA, then use the combination stated to build
the locost.
would this give me the reg plate of the sierra in the end and not a Q plate???
cheers
I've been considering doing much the same myself (when I was considering a different engine!). I can't see why it wouldn't work- depends if anyone
has to physically check the car with it's new engine and also if the V5 for a changed car is any different to one from standard car.
If neither of these is the case then fine- no problem that I can see. Saying that though, I'm sure those more experienced will disagree!
If you do this then please keep us updated as I'd be very interested!
HTH,
James
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Simon
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| posted on 12/11/02 at 11:16 AM |
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Findlay,
I intended to build from one donor (Sierra 1.8 CVH), then drop in R V8. Intention being to get "Non-Q" plate.
Have now had trial fit of V8, and it's going to need quite a bit of work, so ain't going to bother with the CVH engine.
I'm hoping to be able to prove that all parts except engine (with verifiable ages!!) came from one vehicle, and the engine from another (likewise re
age).
I should be able to prove that all parts are of known age, and get an age related plate (engine oldest part).
My understanding is that you get a Q, if vehicle doesn't have known ages to parts, also the 3 out of 5 major parts rule.
Perhaps: a) Rack/column; b) diff / shafts; c) wheels / tyres; d) uprights; e) box (if I use Sierra box), might all count as sufficient for the single
donor.
If it doesn't work, and I get a "Q". Tough.
ATB
Simon
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david walker
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| posted on 12/11/02 at 10:43 PM |
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When I registered my car with Notts DVLA the inspector said you needed 4 of the following 6 items from the donor to be issued with age related plate:
Back axle, Front Axle (ie uprights), Engine, Transmission (gearbox), Chassis (not possible with Locost), Steering Mechanism (he would accept rack
alone).
If you are using a Sierra as a donor, as in a MK Indy, you will have no trouble - Both axles, gearbox and steering will qualify you, even with the
V8.
What you must do though is have one donor car, and prove so (photos are OK) - you don't actually need the original logbook. My DVLA man would have
taken the reg of the donor off of my photos. You will not get away with arguing that all the "bits" are old.
BTW, I have a Q plate as I used too many differing parts.
Dave Walker, Race Engine Services - 07957 454659 or 01636 671277
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Cousin Cleotis
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| posted on 13/11/02 at 07:34 PM |
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Why are people so bothered about Q plates?
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Stu16v
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| posted on 13/11/02 at 08:26 PM |
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Dunno. You cant see 'em from the driving seat!
Dont just build it.....make it!
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 13/11/02 at 09:53 PM |
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from my point of view, a Q is to be avoided cos :
1. People see em as a lower form of life
2. Im trying to make my car look a bit historic - so a Q would blow that completly.
Q is reserved for cars of no known history, and has stigma. It might also make it less attractive to a future buyer. I have been told that a Q can
never be re-reg with a personal plate or anything other than a Q.
atb
steve
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geoff shep
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| posted on 14/11/02 at 08:03 PM |
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Q plates still seem to cause concern. Because of that they can affect resale value (if that is likely to concern you) in the future. I have heard of
it affecting insurance quotes too but have no direct evidence of this.
Not sure how it might affect SVA/MOT emission levels either - someone with experience may wish to comment on age-related emission requirements.
As far as I'm aware, you could pretend to put the MR2 engine in the Sierra and get the engine no on the V5 changed accordingly so that it all appears
to be from one donor. But the better option is probably to build and SVA as a single donor and then swap engines later. Not sure how practical that
would be re fitment of new engine/box etc.
I too have heard that once a Q, always a Q - but that may not bother you.
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bob
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| posted on 14/11/02 at 11:15 PM |
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Q plate
A Q plate could well pull the price down a bit,but if you are worried about after sale value the best thing is call your car something other than
LOCOST.
As for the emissions,when the conrodkid took his car through test and couldnt supply proof of eng age they tested to 3.5% CO max at idle.This was 1986
to 1992 pre cat according to the manual,it should have been 4.5% CO if proof was to hand but passed easilly anyway.
By the way it was a crossflow so couldnt be tested to cat figures,as the examiner said they where never fitted with one.
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Findlay234
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| posted on 18/11/02 at 09:03 AM |
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so is transplanting engine from mr2 and misc' gearbox into sierra a no no??
if they wanted to see the engine in place im sure i can actually transplant it but not conect everything up. it doesnt need to work in the sierra.
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bob
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| posted on 18/11/02 at 09:12 AM |
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Findlay
Just transfer MR2 eng number to your donor log book and thats it,that seems to be the route most take.
It must work as there are countless cobras with age related plates that have jag or sierra running gear and Rover V8s or bigger in.
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Liam
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| posted on 18/11/02 at 09:31 AM |
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Yeah you wont really need to put the MR2 engine in the Sierra - they'll only want to see evidence if you change the tax class of the Sierra - to cut
tax fraud.
Liam
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Ian Pearson
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| posted on 20/11/02 at 09:04 PM |
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Not really sure what the hang up is about Q Plates?? I seem to remember Mark at Triton mentioning something about a Q plate having to pass a much
lower emissions test. Could be wrong?
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 20/11/02 at 10:25 PM |
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previously in the thread it explains the Q plate problem.
Essentially it is seen by some - including me - as a bad thing as Q plates are usually issued to cars of unknown origin. Such as stolen, rebuilt and
the like. It also screams 'kit car' at anyone that sees it and I for one would like the fact its home built not to be so obvious.
The resale value could be lower due to the Q plate perception.
Finally, you can never change a Q plate. For instance, if I wanted to change my car, which should have an e reg to something like
6459 MAZ
(cheap northern ireland reg for about 150 quid) I could.
This would look good on a car thats trying to look like an old style replica.
Q 839 BMP or whatever wouldnt quite carry that off.
The emissions regs realte to the engine. If you fit an engine post 92 or so it has to have a cat regardless of what other bits the car is made
from.
In the case of my E reg it would need to pass 3.5% co. If I fitted this engine and bits from say a nissan to the rest of the car of a Y reg, it still
would need testing to 3.5% CO - its a different issue as far as Q reg and engine emissions are concened.
atb
steve
[Edited on 20/11/02 by stephen_gusterson]
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Ian Pearson
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| posted on 21/11/02 at 04:44 AM |
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I don't plan to sell mine, and am quite proud of the fact that it's "HOMEBUILT." Wish I could remember the link between the Q Plate & the
emissions. Probably got the wrong end of the stick as usual!
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escary
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| posted on 21/11/02 at 02:41 PM |
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avoiding the q plate and maybe getting away with it
this may go on so i appologise in advance
you want to build you 'own' car without the q plate.
there are several ways
1st build a car like an MK indy and then rework the completed car after sva.
This may take as long as the initial build
or, 2nd option which came to me in a drug hazed dream (HONEST i would NEVER do this)
I'm building book car with mk2 escort once sva'd i'll have a car that may inspire me to build what i actually want.
Something like a locost with IRS and decent bike engine (zx12r busa blade etc)
so with the 1st build complete you start a second build.
With all the experience from the first the build should be of a better quality and you build the tarmac tearing monster you wanted in the first
place.
Not easy but get another donor the same as the first (or at least get one on paper) and re sva your original build with a different chassis number
(anyone getting the next move?)
Sell the first build should funds dry up and complete your desired monster.
No need to sva as you already have two log books chassis numbers etc and no q plate.
And it can get better if your mates are also building (some of mine are) you never know how many times one car can assume different identities and
every one can use the same car for sva and build what they like.
I'n not a criminal (just think that way sometimes) but I do work alongside the Vehicle Inspectorate, everyone is human and make mistakes, you have to
make twice as many as normal to work for the VI.
Sorry to any locoster who works for the VI, Police etc hope i haven't offended you.
Regards
Honest Ewan
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interestedparty
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| posted on 21/11/02 at 03:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
The emissions regs realte to the engine. If you fit an engine post 92 or so it has to have a cat regardless of what other bits the car is made
from.
It's actually sometime in '96 that cats became compulsory, which is good news for me because it means I can fit my '94 2ltr Zetec with Webers as I
only have to meet the 3.5 target
I would advise anybody to do what they could to avoid a Q plate. Reason being, building is much more fun that driving and when you want to sell your
first build to make room for the second, you'll be glad you didn't get a Qplate
John
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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Jim
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| posted on 21/11/02 at 04:21 PM |
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My local MOT station has informed me that a Q plate will only get a visible smoke check and so will my car which has been given a C reg (MK Indy
Blade). When our second car was registered it we asked why mine was a C reg, it turns out it my be an error on their part and possibly should have
been a Q Plate
Jim
[Edited on 21/11/02 by Jim]
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 21/11/02 at 08:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim
My local MOT station has informed me that a Q plate will only get a visible smoke check and so will my car which has been given a C reg (MK Indy
Blade). When our second car was registered it we asked why mine was a C reg, it turns out it my be an error on their part and possibly should have
been a Q Plate
Jim
[Edited on 21/11/02 by Jim]
According to the sva manual, a smoke test is done on a diesel. On everything else there are CO limits according to the engine date. You might get that
guy to give an MOT but you wouldnt get past SVA.
atb
steve
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bob
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| posted on 21/11/02 at 10:29 PM |
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If they cant determine the age of engine then its tested at 3.5%CO on SVA,this was done on the test of conrodkids car as there was no log book.
Luckily x-flows never having a cat cos pretty much out of service after 1980ish.
As for MOT yep i asked my local tester and its visual for smoke on a Q plate.
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Viper
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| posted on 22/11/02 at 03:12 PM |
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I have been told that all engines made after 1995 have to be fitted with a cat for the SVA?? and after 96 for an MOT??
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