kb58
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| posted on 23/4/05 at 08:55 PM |
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CMC closed up
Read on another forum the Champion Motorsports Company's building is closed up and for rent.
The kitcar industry seems really, really hard to make any money in...
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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white130d
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| posted on 23/4/05 at 09:10 PM |
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That explains
why it took 2 months to get something from them, it was sent incomplete, and they never answered emails, phone calls or anything. Their vioce mail
has been inop since mid January. I even called Steve at home....
Oh well....
D.
"There's only 2 things that money can't buy, and that's true love and home grown tomatos" Guy Clark
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want2race
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| posted on 23/4/05 at 11:25 PM |
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dont you have to be open to close ?
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sgraber
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| posted on 25/4/05 at 12:56 AM |
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I have no personal experience with the company but personally know someone who had a most un-pleasant experience with component fit and customer
service.
Is it possible that the problem was; too much early success leading to supply problems compounding into quality issues , further spilling into
customer service issues followed by bad publicity, etc... ? In other words, the market for the little cars is too big for one company to handle? I
don't know the answer tho - am just putting forth conjecture.... But like I said, my friend was VERY dissapointed with the entire experience
with CMC.
Graber
[Edited on 4/25/05 by sgraber]
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Sven
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| posted on 25/4/05 at 09:26 AM |
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In two minds.
I am sorry to see them go, they were once a viable supplier of locost parts in NA at very reasonable prices and they had quite a good reputation.
On the other hand, and in my personal experience, over the past 18 months their reputation was tarnished by very poor delivery, components that just
did not fit and a painfully laughable customer service.
I don't think the industry needs a company of the ilk of CMC during their latter months and the hoops I had to jump through to get my crappy
parts was not something I would wish on anyone else. So I have to lean towards the latter opinion and wish them good riddance.
-Steve
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drmike54
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| posted on 25/4/05 at 11:28 PM |
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????? CMC
If CMC is gone are there any other locost suppliers in the US? 
Started Welding the chassis!!!!
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kreb
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| posted on 26/4/05 at 12:48 AM |
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There's Curtis Unlimited, but I'll be damned if I can find a link.
These guys might sell you pieces:
http://www.deman-motorsport.com/
Even with the exchange rate and shipping, the brits aren't too bad costwise. I've heard good things about Dax and GTS tuning has treated
me well.
https://www.supercars.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1966_FiatAbarth_1000SP1.jpg
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Triton
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| posted on 26/4/05 at 07:34 AM |
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It amazes me that you can't get the bits you want in a country that is so bloody big ........maybe one of you should take on being an agent for
one of the Brit firms?
Mark
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kreb
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| posted on 26/4/05 at 01:40 PM |
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quote:
maybe one of you should take on being an agent for one of the Brit firms?
Well Cobras and street rods are where the money is on this side of the pond. As near as I can see the american 7esque crowd is just hanging on.
They're still a great lot to be around - and quick 7s will spank most Cobras, but we're still the stepchildren.
A friend was talking to Dax a couple years ago about selling their line over here, but the UK business was so strong that Dax decided to stay focused
on that.
https://www.supercars.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1966_FiatAbarth_1000SP1.jpg
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Triton
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| posted on 26/4/05 at 09:04 PM |
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Well it's about time that was changed then ....although i like rods i am not too fussed with Cobras......boring things if you ask me that never
get used
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JamJah
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| posted on 26/4/05 at 09:57 PM |
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So what is uncle Ron up to now....? Anyoneone in local council know of consultancy? Or living a life of reily from Haynes?
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Sven
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| posted on 26/4/05 at 10:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Triton
It amazes me that you can't get the bits you want in a country that is so bloody big ........maybe one of you should take on being an agent for
one of the Brit firms?
There's been lots of talk of it and almost everyone of us might have gotten excited about the proposition.
The problem, as was stated, is that for a big country the US actually sells pretty small, meaning that generally the market is very rigid and sticks
to hotrods, muscle cars and tuners. I'd go as far as to say that when one mentions the word 'kitcar' Americans will picture either
Cobra or 32 Ford hotrod replicas.
There are very very few original kits available here and, probably, very few people interested in going to the trouble of building a Locost.
If you look at Jegs or Summit Racing websites you'll see that they cater to very specific muscle car and hotrod market and have only recently
gotten into to selling parts for import tuners.
I suspect this is part of the reason the Stalker is becoming so popular, being based on easily available US parts.
Another reason that may or may not be true, is that very few, if any, states have roadworthiness or emmissions laws that would make an old car almost
useless therefore making interesting donors, such as the ubiquitous running MOT failure Sierra, a tad harder to come by.
-Steve
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kreb
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| posted on 26/4/05 at 11:17 PM |
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The other thing is that most Cobra/seven/hot rod guys in the US treat their cars like the family sedan. The average guy who has over 10K into a
"custom" is in his 50s or 60s and very conservative. he doesn't want a knuckle-dragging, eye-watering, no-side-impact protection,
pebbles-in-the teeth car, he wants heaters and leather and a damn V-8. He couldn't care less if a 4-banger powered british car can smoke him on
a track, cause he never goes there.
That said, there is a market for a CMC-esque company with better management, and the weak US dollar makes sense that it be manufactured over here
(although I've been chatting to a Taiwanese friend about it too.) Someone who just loves sevens and realizes that it will probably never be much
more than a sustenance business can carve himself a nitch.
https://www.supercars.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1966_FiatAbarth_1000SP1.jpg
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locost_bryan
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| posted on 26/4/05 at 11:38 PM |
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Perhaps someone could at look at setting up an agency for one of the NZ or Aust suppliers, such as Leitch or Almac?
Almac supply chassis, wishbones, and fibreglass (list prices are in $NZ and include NZ taxes which
are refundable when exported) - e.g. pair front cycle guards $NZ144 = $US93.
How does that compare to Curtis or GTS?
[Edited on 26-4-05 by locost_bryan]
Bryan Miller
Auckland NZ
Bruce McLaren - "Where's my F1 car?"
John Cooper - "In that rack of tubes, son"
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Alan B
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| posted on 27/4/05 at 11:49 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sven
quote:
Originally posted by Triton
.......I suspect this is part of the reason the Stalker is becoming so popular, being based on easily available US parts........
And the other part is that it is a well developed, well made kit with excellent customer service..........ask any Stalker owner......and a huge list
of motorsort success helps too......
You know where the cheque needs sendng Dennis...
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Dale
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| posted on 27/4/05 at 12:32 PM |
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Insurance is the reason for lack of industry in Ontario Canada - not too certain of the rest of the provinces, but when it costs you half of what your
car cost to build per year in insurnace it kills any insentive to build. Either that or it makes criminals out of everyone who has to get creative so
to say. I personally have had to change the look of my build quite drasticly(maybe for the better) to go the hotrod look using some existing
bodywork from a donor mgb. As it sits as a kit I think there is only one insurance company in Ontario that will even look at it and then it has to be
registered 15 years. A new kit car would cost 10 times the rate for a vintage one. Hense my 33 year old hot rod mgb.
They will cancle your insurance here if they catch you running your road car at the drag races (with your plates on).
I think there would be a good business going here if they were reasonable.
Ok rant over I feel a bit better- cept for the taxes due on Friday
Dale
Thanks
Dale
my 14 and11 year old boys 22
and 19 now want to drive but have to be 25 before insurance will allow. Finally on the road
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kreb
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| posted on 27/4/05 at 12:54 PM |
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yeah, it's too bad for the Locost community that Dennis (Stalker) doesn't make component parts, only complete kits. Not only does he make
himself very available to his builders, He regularly calls me up and helps with things like race prep.
https://www.supercars.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1966_FiatAbarth_1000SP1.jpg
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 27/4/05 at 01:00 PM |
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hmm interesting , what if you could make one based on a very available donor - that no one would consider a performance car , except there were shit
loads sold in the US , more than there own country of origin ?
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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want2race
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| posted on 27/4/05 at 06:41 PM |
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None of you guys have the right reasons.
I was looking very seriously at buying CMC from the owners. We talked, and talked some more and emailed etc.. Talks broke down! They simply think they
are holding onto things that make money yet they dont do it without anyone operating it.
The cashflow could be good, the process is simple but honestly I just dont give a damn about other people enough to throw the $$$ needed to make it
work and to make it run RIGHT!
Anyone can make something work, few can make it right.
My chance of owning a 7 making factory has simply been allowed to pass!
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Triton
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| posted on 27/4/05 at 09:44 PM |
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If you want to do it ......do it.
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kb58
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| posted on 28/4/05 at 01:02 AM |
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I'm convinced CMC could be made to work. They're in a noval position of (basically) having a book written about their product. Lots of
people buy the book, but I think there's a big share of readers who, while they want the car, just don't want to weld it together. Screw
it together, sure, but no welding.
I think that's the only part of the kitcar industry that can really last, selling component parts. So many people get into the industry with
big dreams and no business smarts. They seem to think everyone has $20-$80K to spend on a play car... but never really sat down and did the math to
see how many would actually write a check.
OTOH if you sell frames, fenders, dashes... etc, everyone can afford those. Seen another way, as a cold, heartless business owner, what do you care if
they finish the car... just as long as they buy the parts.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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Triton
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| posted on 28/4/05 at 06:37 AM |
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I know there must be 100's of kit cars that will never get finished....i would like to think those kits i supplied(when i was doing them that
is) will end up being finished and used.
There seems to be more appearing weekly, cars that cost 20K +....beats me why somebody would pay out that kinda money to build a car that perhaps uses
old Sierra/Granada bits.
If i had the money i would rather build a 20k Mini
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want2race
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| posted on 28/4/05 at 01:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kb58
I'm convinced CMC could be made to work. They're in a noval position of (basically) having a book written about their product. Lots of
people buy the book, but I think there's a big share of readers who, while they want the car, just don't want to weld it together. Screw
it together, sure, but no welding.
I think that's the only part of the kitcar industry that can really last, selling component parts. So many people get into the industry with
big dreams and no business smarts. They seem to think everyone has $20-$80K to spend on a play car... but never really sat down and did the math to
see how many would actually write a check.
OTOH if you sell frames, fenders, dashes... etc, everyone can afford those. Seen another way, as a cold, heartless business owner, what do you care if
they finish the car... just as long as they buy the parts.
Could it make money- Yes.. why else would I be interested in buying it.
Is it worth the risk ? No. If I am going to throw $500k in getting a company set up the RIGHT way there is no chance it would be to make cars. there
are better oportunities with that money!
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MikeP
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| posted on 28/4/05 at 02:10 PM |
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It's a good strategy - the first lesson of tech marketing - don't confuse sales with installs  .
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kb58
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| posted on 28/4/05 at 02:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by want2race
Is it worth the risk ? No. If I am going to throw $500k in getting a company set up the RIGHT way there is no chance it would be to make cars. there
are better oportunities with that money!
True, though if you have the passion for sports cars, well, there you go. I agree though that for $500k there are other opportunities... though
owning a McDonald's would never be quite the same as selling sports car parts... Or, do you care... sell lots of burgers and you can just buy
the sports car and be done with it. All depends what you want out of life.
[Edited on 4/28/05 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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