akumabito
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 posted on 16/6/05 at 03:09 PM |
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V12
Have any locost type cars ever been built with a Jaguar V12 engine? They are a LOT heavier than any 4 cil, and even the Rover V8 will seem like a
lightweight, but think of the power..
Assuming anormal weight with a 4 cilidner engine of 600kg, and the engine producing around 150hp, that would give 250hp per ton.
But if you'd throw in a V12, producing 300hp in stock form, the weight would climb to 800kg or so, but it would give a power to weight ratio of
375hp per ton..
Ok, so it may not be the most practical engine, and the chassis would have to be stretched a lot, probably at least 6 to 8 inches longer (though
likely even more), and it would also have to be wider than normal..
But hey, think about the bragging rights!
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smart51
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| posted on 16/6/05 at 03:31 PM |
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An R1 engined locost would have a better power to weight ratio than that and the lighter weight would give better handling.
Sure it would sound impressive and it would have the boast factor but the weight on it's own would have Colin Chapman spinning in his grave.
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tks
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| posted on 16/6/05 at 03:43 PM |
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yeah
you could maybe right
but what if you sqeeze out 500Bhp..
should be easy out of an V12 proberly 6litre engine..
an r1=1000cc = 150Hp
if the v12= 6liter = 500Bhp minimum..
offcourse if you reach the same level of volumetric eff..
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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donut
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| posted on 16/6/05 at 03:47 PM |
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Someone built a Luego Viento with a 6cy Jag engine for Racing.Dunno how successful it was. I think there are images on the luego website.
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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Snuggs
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| posted on 16/6/05 at 03:58 PM |
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Last time I was down at Luego with my V12, Matt got his tape measure out and declared that it would fit in a Viento.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.topcashback.co.uk/ref/snuggstcb
Spider pig, spider pig, does whatever a spider pig does.
I doubt therefore I may be.
Luposlipophobia : Fear of being chased by wolves around a freshly waxed kitchen floor, while wearing only socks on your feet.
My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!
http://www.venganza.org
http://www.jesusandmo.net/
http://www.snuggs.co.uk
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scoobyis2cool
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| posted on 16/6/05 at 04:00 PM |
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It would be quick in a straight line but when you got to a corner it would probably just give up and go into the nearest tree
These cars are designed to be light and nippy so i think a big heavy engine like that isn't really in the spirit. Would be interesting to see
though.
Pete
EDIT: I've just realised how differenly I think since building my Indy - I now consider an 800kg car to be heavy 
[Edited on 16/6/05 by scoobyis2cool]
It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care...
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/6/05 at 04:21 PM |
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The chassis would also need strengthening around all the critical areas like diff mountings, suspension etc.
Each to their own but IMHO an engine like that belongs in something like a Cobra replica to make a good grand tourer, not a Seven-esque car which as
others have said, are meant to be light and nimble.
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Danozeman
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| posted on 16/6/05 at 05:35 PM |
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I was going to put a ford 5.8 V8 in a locost. I took the sensible option and am keeping it for a cobra or viento.
415 ft/lbs torque and 400 bhp in a locost i thought would be a tad mad, the jad v12 would be even more so!!
The extra work involved wouldnt be worth it in a locost.
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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tks
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| posted on 16/6/05 at 06:12 PM |
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pff
you change the hole structure of the car by doing that..
an light fast V8 would be the best thing to do....
but an v12 is more for an Ultima..etc..
imagine what kind of loads the sierra diff needs to transmit..
also think about grip?? what kind of tyres are you gonna fit?
because we all know with out good tyres you can have an million HP..but you don't go forward...
soow the grip levels will be broken..
how lighter an car is..how better his grip with same wheels etc and dimensions..
rubber sticks better with less weight...
altough its only in dry that way....
(becuase in the wet you need pressure to push the water out..)
TKs
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 16/6/05 at 06:44 PM |
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Sounds fine untill you start adding the weight of all the other Jag sized bits required --- ever lifted a Jaguar Salsbury rear axle ? I have removed
refitted 4 four of them of them even the narrow E Type one is a 4 (strong) man job to move round the workshop. And almost every other part would
be twice as heavy as a typical Locost --- 2 exhausts, bigger battery bigger fuel tank. The standard chassis wouldn't be stiff enough espeically
if you stretch the wheelbase.
The all up weight would be well over 1000 kg perhaps 1200kg or more.
For the kind cost involved you could build one hell of car with a bike/K series/Zetec/Toyota/Vauxhall engine.
If you want a V12 build a Cobra.
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Simon
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| posted on 16/6/05 at 09:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tks
you could maybe right
but what if you sqeeze out 500Bhp..
should be easy out of an V12 proberly 6litre engine..
an r1=1000cc = 150Hp
if the v12= 6liter = 500Bhp minimum..
offcourse if you reach the same level of volumetric eff..
Tks
Ah yeah, but if you turbo a 'busa engine, you should be looking at 400 bhp, with minimal weight increase over n/a. Bike engined will weigh
450-475 kg which works out at 840 - 890 bhp/tonne.
Then if you put in two turbo'd 'busa.......
ATB
Simon
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ADD
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| posted on 16/6/05 at 09:18 PM |
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I say go for it, add a bit more length, add a bit more strength but do choose a better V12 to start with, there must be some BMW or Merc V12's
knocking around. If you are feeling flush go for a ferrari!!!, they dont seem to have any probs going round corners.
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niceperson709
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| posted on 17/6/05 at 06:41 AM |
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Has been done by martin Keenen ( MK cars ) sure wi\ould be good for apissing comp but must be a real brute.....
I do have a photo in a book but not here at present.
Best wishes
Iain
Best wishes IAIN
life is not the rehearsal , it's the show so don't sit there thinking about it DO IT NOW
http://iainseven.wordpress.com/
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britishtrident
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| posted on 17/6/05 at 06:43 AM |
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Jag V12 is useable old technology the BMW and Merc units are just too clever thier own good.
BMW design cars with more data networks in the wiring than the average internet provider.
You know the lunatics have taken over the asylum when the head light switch has a microprocessor built in that talks to the engine ecu, the body ecu,
the airconditioning controller and the cd player.
[Edited on 17/6/05 by britishtrident]
[Edited on 17/6/05 by britishtrident]
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smart51
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| posted on 17/6/05 at 07:09 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
BMW design cars with more data networks in the wiring than the average internet provider.
You know the lunatics have taken over the asylum when the head light switch has a microprocessor built in that talks to the engine ecu, the body ecu,
the airconditioning controller and the cd player.
You's be surprised at the weight and bulk of the wiring loom for a 7 series or similar car. A 2 wire data network and a big 12 wire can save
hundreds or individual wires (no exageration) and 10s of kilos in weight. It is a very good solution to have tuppeny microprocessors and data rather
than miles of copper.
The problem with this type of car is that there is just so much functionality, like programmable interior light brightness and programmable instrument
pack light fade up time. This is why locosts are so good. They only have engines and brakes and so a very light and very simpe and drive very well.
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ben salt
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| posted on 18/6/05 at 12:10 AM |
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Just thought i'd add that it has been done by robin hood in the past.
http://www.robinhoodengineering.co.uk/
goto cars for sale, then about 3/4 down the page. Is currently for sale.
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wilkingj
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| posted on 18/6/05 at 07:08 AM |
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2 words.....
BOAT Anchor
Rover V8 weighs a couple of Kilo's more than a Pinto Engine. A 4.6 or Bored out to 5.2 will produce a much better car, Lighter and same or more
power. and probably handle a darn sight better.
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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niceperson709
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| posted on 18/6/05 at 07:47 AM |
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May be that it would be a boat anchor with brutal charm though
best wishes
Iain
Now for a real brutal Locost some one should build one with a Rolls Royce MERLIN engine like the car below
 
Rescued attachment BeastBig.jpg
Best wishes IAIN
life is not the rehearsal , it's the show so don't sit there thinking about it DO IT NOW
http://iainseven.wordpress.com/
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niceperson709
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| posted on 18/6/05 at 07:53 AM |
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another view of the same car
 
Rescued attachment BeastBack.jpg
Best wishes IAIN
life is not the rehearsal , it's the show so don't sit there thinking about it DO IT NOW
http://iainseven.wordpress.com/
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niceperson709
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| posted on 18/6/05 at 07:55 AM |
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and for the last time  
 
Rescued attachment BeastSide.jpg
Best wishes IAIN
life is not the rehearsal , it's the show so don't sit there thinking about it DO IT NOW
http://iainseven.wordpress.com/
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akumabito
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 09:36 AM |
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Wow, that Merlin powered car is really uhh... "special" looking? Nahh, it's just damn ugly, lol.. wonder what gearbox they use...
hmm..
That V12 Robin Hood doesn't look all that bad.. I was actually worried about the size of the engine messing up the nice looks of the Seven..
I'll e-mail them to find out if they can tell me a bit more about the weight of the vehicle..
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 11:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by akumabito
Wow, that Merlin powered car is really uhh... "special" looking? Nahh, it's just damn ugly, lol.. wonder what gearbox they use...
hmm..
It's probably a Meteor engine rather than Merlin (esssentialy the same minus superchargers) and it was used in the Cromwell, Comet, Centurion,
Tortoise and Conqueror tanks, so they would have had some kind of gearbox fitted.
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tks
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 02:54 PM |
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turbo'd busa
you cant compare an turboed busa with a v12 ok?
sow please....
an v12 will survive 24hrs lemans..
did i say enough?? (and your busa's gearbox/clutch with 350bhp??)
what the hell do you think if you turbo an
petrol V12 with 6litres? and you use an
an big truck turbo? the BMW McClaren V12 6 litres gets 600Bhp with out an turbo! thats the same efficency as an 1 litre 100Bhp bike engine..
i bet you can get 1000bhp or more out of it with minimal pressure.....
(rememeber the renault turbo f1 time )
you just need to think about volumetric effiency... to guess BHP...
and an busa engine is already on its limits..
wy do you guess that an bike lasts for 100.000km (if it already reaches this??) and can be get to the scrap yard..??
an V12 produces much more power to weight as an Turbo ed busa..
the only problem is that you need someting strong to put it in to give it an chance, also due their seize and weight they aren't
practical....(weight compared to our chasis)
and don't forget that rpm starts counting when engine displacement is fixed..
Tks
p.s. dont get me wrong.. i like bike engines.. but don't unther estimate an v12...
[Edited on 19/6/05 by tks]
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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Bart Vangampelaere
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| posted on 19/6/05 at 06:01 PM |
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I know of a German guy who builds engines (and cars) as a hobby, and he uses pre-86 engines because he can dump emission controls.
The guy can squeeze about 700hp from a 4-cyl. BMW, and has build a Jaguar V12 he reckons makes about 1400-1500hp!
No way a bike engine will keep up with that. But even apart from top end power: bike engines lack torque, where as a V12 (esp a turbo V12) has loads
of it.
Nevertheless, the engine will be pretty heavy, and handling will be compromised to say the least.
I'd only go with one engine type in a locost-type of car: rotary. Non-turbo between 150-180hp, turbo up to 500hp.
And a lot lighter than a V12!
just browse here: http://www.zynki-power.de
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Mark18
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| posted on 20/6/05 at 05:00 AM |
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Out of all the cars out there, the one that least needs a 6 litre v12 is a 600kg locost. Torque is great of you have the weight that requires it - a
locost neither needs nor could handle it IMO.
Mark
"I don't know what I may seem to the world. But as to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore and diverting myself
now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than the ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." -
Isaac Newton
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