DunkerT
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 12:36 PM |
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BMW locost
Hello all,
I am fairly new to this site and am in desperate need of some help/advice. I am on quite a tight budget of £1k. I bought a BMW 325i '89 for £250
in full running order. However, after reading through a large number of threads on this site I am seriously worried about fitting the engine in the
car. A number of threads have suggested that the McSorely7 +442 chassis will allow the tall and long straight six engine to fit in. I was wondering if
anyone has any advice on what I can do.
Also will the rear axle fit in the McSorely chassis? As on his site it is stated that the rear axle has o be exactly 4" larger than the escort
axle.
All the advice on BMWs I have read on the other threads has got my head spinning. Does anyone know what parts I can use off my Beemer for the locost
and what parts am I going to have to salvage off a sierra from somewhere?
Any advice would be fantastic as I am severely confused and worried I have wasted £250 of my hard earned student budget.
Cheers all
Tom
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ned
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 12:39 PM |
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Tom,
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but i think your budget of £1k is highly unrealistic.
You could use the 4-4-2 but bear in mind bodywork would not be standard sizes and only available from one manufacturer afaik.
The luego viento has been fitted with the beemer 6 pot lump and a couple of other people on here have work's in progress but none finished that
I can think of.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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NigeEss
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 12:49 PM |
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Hello and welcome.
I'm in agreement with Ned on the build price, especially if you use a less than
common donor. You'd end up spending stacks on special bits.
Maybe you could tart up the Beemer and make a profit and go the conventional
Sierra route. There's far more parts readily available.
Best of luck whichever way you go.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 12:55 PM |
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The BMW doesn't have a live rear axle anyway, it's uses a semi-trailing arm system simmilar to the Sierra's. This means you would
either need to fabricate a De-Dion axle to use the standard McSorely chassis, or go for a fully independant rear suspenion (IRS) and have to fabricate
uprights and redesign the rear of the chassis.
All perfectly doable, but quite a lot of extra work. For simplicity you could probably use a Cortina/Capri rear axle and mate it up to the BMW box
with a custom propshaft.
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smart51
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 01:18 PM |
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The Marlin Roadster uses a BMW donor and is a nice looking car. I'm sure you could make a locost using BMW parts but there is one thing to
think about. Most people use Ford donors and so you can buy Ford compatible parts off the shelf. Ford donor designs for sevens exist and are well
tried and sorted. If you use something different, you are going to have to sort out the problems yourself. That said, It might be worth the extra
effort as a BMW straight six will be better than your typical Pinto in every way.
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DunkerT
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 01:34 PM |
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Hi,
Right, not the best news really then
I'm planning on doing all the body work myself being a bit of a keen DIYer so I think I could undertake doing the 442 chassis. I also plan on
getting a summer job so may be able to source a bit more cash if really required. My main worry is fitting the engine in really. I plan on removing
the fan from the front of the engine to shorten it a bit, but I was just wondering if anyone would know if the engine will fit in the 422 chassis?
I think for the rear axle I might take your idea of using a cortina/capri rear axle if you think this will fit the larger chassis.? I should be able
to sort out a custom prop shaft as I have access to a number of industrial machines at uni.
Cheers for the help
Tom
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TPG
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 01:45 PM |
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I would bear with the Bmw.As every one says up your £1k budget.The whole thing about Locost is you can make it to suit yourself with help from sites
like this.Good luck.
..Which was nice..
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James
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 03:04 PM |
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There'll easily be room for a straight 6. My chassis is longer and wider. The wider means the engine can go further back as the tunnel can be
made wider so the gearbox's bellhousing fits further down it! 
There's easily room for another Pinto into front of my current one! So your straight 6 should fit easily.
Good luck with the rest of your build, with that sort of budget and donor you've got about 4-5 years work ahead of you.....
HTH
James
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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pewe
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 03:06 PM |
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Ned, unless you can find a kit which is tailor-made for the Beemer engine I'd recommend you flog it and buy one for a Ford/Vauxhall based kit.
My Formula 27 with Lancia Volumex engine has been a steep learning curve even though I've been messing about with cars & bikes for longer
than most of you guys have been around. Problem is there's no manual to tell you how to do it although this site is a fantastic refence point.
Cheers, Pewe.
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EViS
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 03:17 PM |
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£1k is most definitely too little, even for a self build. Double that, and maybe use a Sierra instead of your BMW, and your well on your way to
finishing  . I'm going to try squeeze everything into £2k, although I haven't myself calculated the total cost of making all the GRP
panels yet, and need to buy a mig welder among some other things .
[Edited on 12/4/06 by EViS]
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DunkerT
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 03:38 PM |
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hey,
cheers for all the help, much appreciated. If the engine will fit in I'm going to give it a go (enlist the help of my fellow students perhaps).
I drove the 325i before stripping it and the power and torque that engine produced was seriously addictive. That engine in a locost should be lots of
fun.
I think I might just try and source the rest of the parts such as axle, hubs etc. from a cortina or sierra. Maybe just use the engine and gearbox from
the Beemer.
Cheers for all the advice
Tom
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Schrodinger
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 03:44 PM |
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Do take into account that if you are building the body panels yourself from GRP then you will be spending a fair amount for the Buck then mould then
the panels, thats a lot of glass and resin and even more time
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 04:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DunkerT
I think for the rear axle I might take your idea of using a cortina/capri rear axle if you think this will fit the larger chassis.?
The Cortina rear axle is 4" wider than the Escort axle, so is a good fit for for a 442 chassis. The only downside is that it is bit heavy, but
then again the beemer engine isn't exactly going to be featherweight so will help balance the weight distribution
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DIY Si
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 05:25 PM |
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It can be done on £1k bugdet, although it'll be hard. It's what I'm aiming for. A de-dion kit wiould be about £100 or so. Just U2U
jroberts with your requirements. He's doing me a one off for about that, so should be helpful. It can be done, if you're friendly with the
local scrapper etc. Your lucky in that you have a complete gear train and engine already. You can also use your dash, seats (poss), front uprights
(again poss). All you need is a chassis to put things in. And some other things I've probably forgotten.
And remeber, time and elbow grease are free.
[Edited on 12/4/06 by DIY Si]
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 05:33 PM |
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BMW will fit a 442 chassis with ease , dont overlook volvo for a live axle , the props are actually guibo dimensions , youll just need a special
length .
only downside is the PCD of wheels 5x108 .
altho my front uprights were dead easy to make .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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kb58
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 05:37 PM |
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You have the BMW now, right? You have the McSorley plans... so pull out a tape-measure and find out if the engine will fit!
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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ned
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 05:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pewe
Ned, unless you can find a kit which is tailor-made for the Beemer engine I'd recommend you flog it and buy one for a Ford/Vauxhall based kit.
My Formula 27 with Lancia Volumex engine has been a steep learning curve even though I've been messing about with cars & bikes for longer
than most of you guys have been around. Problem is there's no manual to tell you how to do it although this site is a fantastic refence point.
Cheers, Pewe.
I think you mean DunkerT, I already have a vauxhall engine and ford running gear in mine
beware, I've got yellow skin
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DunkerT
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 09:33 PM |
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Cheers for all the help guys, its been very gratefully recieved. I'm going to have a bash at doing this as soon as I can source the metal for
the chassis. I've had a look for a cortina and capri rear axle and there are very slim pickings.
I'm going to have to look into the De-Dion rear end as Im not too sure exactly what this involves, or the volvo axle you say? Do you know what
model volvo I could get a correct size axle for the 442 chassis off?
At least now I know that I can fit in my straight 6, I'll have to do some research into the rear end as I dont know much if anything about
De-Dion systems.
Cheers for the help again.
Tom
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ned
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| posted on 12/4/06 at 10:56 PM |
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one option for dedion rear would be to get a sierra track dedion made up either wihout the trailing arm brackets welded on or if you can get them
welded at a width to suit the 442 chassis. use standard width sierra shafts and go that route.
there are some plans in my archve under dedion (funny that) if you fancy having a go at it yourself otherwise mnr might be worth a contact as they
posted about producing a dedion setup recently.
you should be able to find a standard sierra rear end for about £80 or less i'd recon, maybe less if you buy a whole car or more if you want a
specific ratio or lsd (xr4x4 and granada modesl i believe)
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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DIY Si
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| posted on 13/4/06 at 03:28 PM |
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quote:
A de-dion kit wiould be about £100 or so. Just U2U jroberts with your requirements. He's doing me a one off for about that, so should be
helpful
Nwet to do with me, just a happy customer.
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Taz Surfleet
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| posted on 13/4/06 at 03:41 PM |
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I say go for it ! your biggest headache is going to be refurbisment costs on the other hand wouldnt life be boring if we all built sierra based cars!
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Borken
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| posted on 13/4/06 at 06:01 PM |
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Isn“t the e34 5-series gearbox really big? Swap the 525 against a 518, and you have a neat fourbanger instead :-)
The M10 or M42 engines fits fine in the bookchassis.
/Borken
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DunkerT
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| posted on 13/4/06 at 06:40 PM |
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hey,
The engine is an M20 so may not fit in the book chassis. When I get home, should be within the next few days, I'll get the tape measure out and
see what it will fit in, I heard the 442 chassis allows wider seats and I feel would just be better to build in case my larger sized father wants to
drive it aswell.
Should be a fun/challenging build anyhow.
Cheers all for the help
Tom
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 13/4/06 at 06:48 PM |
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6 cyl will fit in 442 chassis , just get the engine as far back and therell be space for it .
the volvo axle can be found from any 740.
3 ratios , Manual 3.54:1 auto 3.73,3.89:1
if its a wentworth axle itll have an LSD .
youll still have 5x108 PCD which is different to BMW , not insurmountable .
of course if you found a 3 litre volvo 960 , it would come with a 204 hp straight six anyway .
if you can get to the RHSC factory , ill let you nosey round mine for as long as you want .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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Borken
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| posted on 13/4/06 at 07:20 PM |
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The volvo propshaft and live axle are excellent choices, the propshaft is of the telescopic type wich is needed for converting the bmw gearbox for
live axle.
The m20b25 is a capable engine (170 hp?), but the e34 gearbox is a bit bulky, a slimmer gearbox can be found on earlier 5-series.
/borken
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