pewe
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| posted on 9/10/06 at 05:56 PM |
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Track rod length
Bought an Escort Mk2 2.4 rack from RD plus some extensions as I reckoned there wouldn't be enough thread into the track rod end. Problem is the
extensions give approx. 50mm extension (too much) whereas I only need about 25mm. Anyone have any idea how to overcome this please? It's either
shorter extensions (can't reduce the existing ones due to the way they're machined) or longer track rod ends. Thanks, Pewe . 
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NS Dev
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 08:50 AM |
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hmmmmmm, tricky one!!!
See your problem!
I think you will need to try and find some male threaded track rod ends that fit the escort/sierra taper in the upright, then you can use a
"female - female " ended adaptor to convert the made trackrod end to the male trackrod.
You won't be able to make a very short extension because you need some "meat" in the transition from the female bit to the male
bit.
Another alternative is to cut the escort trackrods down, rethread them (think you can thread the trackrod 1/2" UNF but check its big enough
first! ) and make some new longer extensions with female 1/2" unf thread at the inner end and the male M14 thread on the outer end, if that
makes any sense!
I have done the latter a number of times with sierra trackrods, bu not sure if the escort ones are the same dia on the bit that is not threaded??
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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pewe
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 10:19 AM |
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Dev, thanks for that. There was a post on here some time ago as to whether the rods were hardened or not but cutting them down and re-threading could
be an option. RD do RS200 ends that look longer - I'll give them a ring to see if they are. Alternatively my local Henry parts dept has proved
helpful on other items so maybe they'll know. Cheers, Pewe
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02GF74
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 10:35 AM |
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yes, this sounds all very familiar - been through this. 
My rack screwed into the track rod ends 4 or 5 turns - not enough - you are aiming for a miminum distance 1.5 times the diameter; so for M14 that is
21 mm.
The simplest solution, if it were possible is to find a longer tre. I spent a few hours looking at the track rod end catalougue to match up the
taper, thread diameter and pitch nad direction (LH or RH) and there are 3 parts that match; bedford rascal (+syzuki eauivalent) but £££ since they are
no longer made - but not sure how mcuh longer the arms are and the volvo 850. The latter has much longer arms that are cranked. These are too
long.
I say too long since it would mean cutting thread on the RD rack.
The RD rack uses 14 mm dimater track rods - Ford uses 12 mm and rolls the thread on) and it is hardened so you cannot cut it using a die - you need a
lathe. I do not have a lather and did not want to take a brand new rck apart.
I also looked at other track rod ends with the same taper and inserring a helicoil but a) is is £££ and b) there is not enough metal once drilled for
the helicoil.
So opted for an intermediate solution; and that was to have a set of exstension made. To increase the thickness of the solid part of the extension
(oi.e. between the thread hole and the threaded bolt end), I cut the rack down by about 10 mm and found shorter track rod ends.
Track rod ends vary in length and a bit of trial and error I found shorter ones - can;t remeber how but approx 5 mm.
the extension I had made have 9 mm soil section cf. with RD that use 5 mm (I cvhose 9 mm since that woudl be thickness of a M14 bolt head.
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Peteff
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 11:02 AM |
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I think you will need to try and find some male threaded track rod ends that fit the escort/sierra taper
We looked at some Renault (19?) for this, they are long and male thread but I can't remember if the taper was right.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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pewe
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 11:45 AM |
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Thanks for that guys. I'll look at the options. You'd have thought RD would come up with a solution or is everyone else running their
track rods on a wing and a prayer?
GF do you have a drawing of your pattern - looked at your photo archive last night and they look the bus.?
Ho, hum - as usual one step forward and two back.
Cheers, Pewe
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JoelP
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 11:46 AM |
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i had this problem, first fix was to weld them up which worked just fine but isnt MOT passable. So i then got my old extensions out and chopped some
off the track rod, and some off the extension. The extension was just a piece of threaded tube with a bit of threaded rod in the end, hence easy to
modify.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 11:59 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
yes, this sounds all very familiar - been through this.
My rack screwed into the track rod ends 4 or 5 turns - not enough - you are aiming for a miminum distance 1.5 times the diameter; so for M14 that is
21 mm.
The simplest solution, if it were possible is to find a longer tre. I spent a few hours looking at the track rod end catalougue to match up the
taper, thread diameter and pitch nad direction (LH or RH) and there are 3 parts that match; bedford rascal (+syzuki eauivalent) but £££ since they are
no longer made - but not sure how mcuh longer the arms are and the volvo 850. The latter has much longer arms that are cranked. These are too
long.
I say too long since it would mean cutting thread on the RD rack.
The RD rack uses 14 mm dimater track rods - Ford uses 12 mm and rolls the thread on) and it is hardened so you cannot cut it using a die - you need a
lathe. I do not have a lather and did not want to take a brand new rck apart.
I also looked at other track rod ends with the same taper and inserring a helicoil but a) is is £££ and b) there is not enough metal once drilled for
the helicoil.
So opted for an intermediate solution; and that was to have a set of exstension made. To increase the thickness of the solid part of the extension
(oi.e. between the thread hole and the threaded bolt end), I cut the rack down by about 10 mm and found shorter track rod ends.
Track rod ends vary in length and a bit of trial and error I found shorter ones - can;t remeber how but approx 5 mm.
the extension I had made have 9 mm soil section cf. with RD that use 5 mm (I cvhose 9 mm since that woudl be thickness of a M14 bolt head.
Aye you absolutely sure that the trackrods are hardened?
I have had several RD racks and not even the whole rack is hardened, just the teeth are induction hardened, hence easy to drill and tap.
I would have "thought" that the trackrods would be EN16 (or EN16T) type material or similar, which will thread just fine (at the end of
the day if you can thread it in a lathe you can thread it with a die)
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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NS Dev
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 12:03 PM |
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Pardon the horrifically muddy state of it, but this is a very cut down sierra trackrod, threaded 1/2" UNF, with a tube threaded 1/2"UNF each
end, and 1/2" rose joints at the outer ends.
Change the outer ends for M14 and jobs a goodun.
 
grassersteer2
[Edited on 10/10/06 by NS Dev]
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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02GF74
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 12:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Aye you absolutely sure that the trackrods are hardened?
don't hit me please  that is what I was told, they seemed tougher than mild steel when I sawed them down.
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02GF74
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 12:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pewe
You'd have thought RD would come up with a solution or is everyone else running their track rods on a wing and a prayer?
there was a post about RD looking to make racks with a much longer threaded part -must have been over 6 monthds ago; seems like it hasn't
happened.
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02GF74
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 01:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
We looked at some Renault (19?) for this, they are long and male thread but I can't remember if the taper was right.
I looked thorugh the full catalogue, if the taper matched, then the threads were not compatible, or LH etc: and vice versa. The ISO M14 that Ford
uses is rather less common, a lot more in M14 x 1.5.
I looked at the tube exension - 2 different threads - but don't think there was a suitable taper.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 03:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Aye you absolutely sure that the trackrods are hardened?
don't hit me please that is what I was told, they seemed tougher than mild steel when I sawed them down.
Its alright I don't hit people!! 
They will certainly be pretty tough stuff, but I doubt (not certain but 99% sure) that they would be hardened, no need on that part, and manufacturers
don't do stuff unless really necessary.
i think they will be EN16, so can be cut down and rethreaded. The threads will obviously then be cut not rolled, and so will be a tad weaker, but you
can make the threaded part a lot longer for more engagement, and you are not putting anything like the load on them.
I have hit barriers with mine pretty hard and they have not had problems!
just check the trackrod diameter before you try to run the die down it, as I can't remember whether I had to turn mine down a touch or not, I
may have had to knock them down from 14mm to 1/2", but then I am sure that the M14 rolled thread actually stands slightly proud of the rod
surface, so they may be 1/2" anyway.....best check!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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NS Dev
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| posted on 10/10/06 at 03:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
We looked at some Renault (19?) for this, they are long and male thread but I can't remember if the taper was right.
I looked thorugh the full catalogue, if the taper matched, then the threads were not compatible, or LH etc: and vice versa. The ISO M14 that Ford
uses is rather less common, a lot more in M14 x 1.5.
I looked at the tube exension - 2 different threads - but don't think there was a suitable taper.
Had my doubts that there would be any.
Will just do one check tonight though, have some opel commodore TRE's that I aquired last night and they "look" similar and male
threaded........
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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02GF74
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| posted on 11/10/06 at 09:10 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
i think they will be EN16, so can be cut down and rethreaded. The threads will obviously then be cut not rolled, and so will be a tad weaker, but you
can make the threaded part a lot longer for more engagement, and you are not putting anything like the load on them.
just check the trackrod diameter before you try to run the die down it, as I can't remember whether I had to turn mine down a touch or not, I
may have had to knock them down from 14mm to 1/2", but then I am sure that the M14 rolled thread actually stands slightly proud of the rod
surface, so they may be 1/2"
the difficulty in me trying to continue the thread may have been because this was the biggest diameter rod that I tried to thread.
the RD are 14 mm all the way; Ford's are 12 mm butthe thread is rolled.
I am sure there are trackrod ends that use 12 mm female, but again it is down to whether the taper is right.
I looked at the possibility of a different taper but a few 1/10 th of a mm make a big different as to whether you will get the correct fit; (there are
2 standard angles for the taper).
too small then the trhe sticks out too far - you could pad out with washers; (MOT prob?)
too big and the thread may bot be long enough.
from memory I think you can go about 0.2 mm either side (I knew I should have written all of this down.... didn't think this problem would come
up again)
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