joscorstjens
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| posted on 20/12/06 at 10:28 PM |
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adding lambda sensor to pinto
Hi, for the belgian approval I'll need to have very clean exhaust measurements. So I'll probably have to add a cat and a lamba sensor to
my 2.0 injected pinto. Any pointers to someone who did this already or to instructions/description?
tia
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DarrenW
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| posted on 21/12/06 at 09:16 AM |
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Im just in the process of fitting narrowband lambda to mine - nothing to do with emissions, just to rig up to AFR meter. Mac#1 Motorsports have just
kindly welded my 'Nick Skidmore' lambda boss into the exhaust manifold. Its a 4 - 2 - 1 system, as im goint to use quad carbs ive fitted
the boss just after the final collector.
Does this help?
Im afraid im not sure what you have to do in terms of fitting lambda sensor for ECU feedback.
(before anyone says it ( ) i know wideband is better but funds dont allow at present. Narrowband should be better than zeroband).
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DarrenW
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| posted on 21/12/06 at 11:48 AM |
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just thinking, i would have thought the Cat on its own would have cleaned up the emissions. Do you need the lambda? Or are you thinking of doing what
im on with - use lambda to help set the mixture up?
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joscorstjens
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| posted on 22/12/06 at 12:20 AM |
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My assumption was that a cat does not function properly without a lambda sensor. Is this right? In any case, I need to get the Nox below a certain
level.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 22/12/06 at 09:18 AM |
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I hope someone who is an expert in Catalytic converters will be along soon. My understanding is that Cats are a stand alone exhaust gas cleaner. The
lambda sensor is only an Oxygen sensor that sends a signal to the ECU about the condition of the exhaust gasses pre-Cat. The ECU can then make
necessary adjustments to keep the car running sweet.
As you know Pinto's are not generally renowned for their brain capacity or clean living. I would have therefore thought that an engine in good
condition set up correctly with a Cat in the exhaust would be about as clean as you could get. For the test you may need to lean off the Carb etc
(assuming it is once per year and not regular roadside spot checks).
What iam not sure is if you use the original injection system if this also needs a lambda input. Let us know a bit more about your intended engine
configuration.
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tks
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| posted on 22/12/06 at 10:04 AM |
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nahh
the cat is just the most easyest way to adjust the gasses. in fact lets say it can take away 4% of the crap in the gasses..
BUT what decided the crap in de gasses is the combustion and the combustion quality is just a matter of spark timeing and fuel quantity in relation to
air.
spark in relation to engine temp. (i guess)
Sow the labda says to the mcu less fuel more fuel etc. etc. etc..
also there are cars that use 2 labda ones 1 before the cat and 1 after. they do that because in that way the computer can check the cat and light up a
error that your cat needs renewal.
useless to say that for good fine tuning
a wideband labda is needed.
before the cat.
p.d. a system is prepared for labda or not!
its quite a task to rev the bike to 14.000rpm en watch the labda sensor
also labda is ignored above 90% throttle..
ahhh also running to rich is bad for the cat...
sow guys who just passed the tests are proberly doing good in taking out the cat and just put it in when needed..
Tks
[Edited on 22/12/06 by tks]
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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smart51
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| posted on 22/12/06 at 11:04 AM |
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Catalytic convertors "work" on their own. That is once they warm up, they convert CO and O2 into CO2. Sadly, they also convert N2 and O2
into NO and NO2. They only work properly if the air fuel mixture is roughly stoichiomentric. Run them too lean and they get too hot and melt. Run
them too rich and they cool down and don't work properly.
The lambda sensor(s) is(are) used by the ECU to tune the A/F mixture into the zone. It compensates for varying O2 densities and fuel blends.
If your air/fuel ratio is about right then your cat will be OK. I guess the problem is that most un-catted fueling systems are designed to run rich
at full throttle to maximise torque and power whereas they run neutral to lean at part throttle for economy. If you can map your fueling and ignition
to run right then you don't really need a lambda sensor.
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C10CoryM
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| posted on 22/12/06 at 03:06 PM |
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Cats are designed to operate on a certain feed gas percentage. 0.5% CO and 0.5% O2 pre-cat is a good bet for optimal cat performance (not engine
performance though).
If you are just looking to cheat through emmisions, then adjust to normal driving specs I would just get onto a gas analyzer and see if you can get
through w/o even a cat. The pinto is a stinky little engine though, so maybe not.
We have one of the hardest emmisions tests in the world here so I may have a little experience getting cars through  .
I only cheat hotrods through though, not beaters.
Cheers.
"Our watchword evermore shall be: The Maple Leaf Forever!"
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joscorstjens
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| posted on 23/12/06 at 01:06 AM |
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The standard ECU is not remappable. So I don't know wether I'll get the exhaust clean enough to pass approval tests. If I could pass with
the standard/existing ECU and just adding a cat (during the test), I'd go that route.
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C10CoryM
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| posted on 23/12/06 at 02:40 AM |
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Ok, well if its already EFI and set up for a cat and 02 sensor it should clean up enough. You will probably need to install an 02 sensor and get into
closed loop to pass. There are O2 bosses/bungs you can buy, otherwise find a nut that will thread onto the O2, weld to exhaust and drill hole. Do it
pre-cat and in the collector as close to the engine as possible. O2s need heat to operate. Should just be a 1 or 2 wire sensor which will just be
signal to ECU, or signal and ground to ECU.
What kind of tests do they do? Dyno test? multispeed dyno test? idle test?
Do they test for NOx? Pintos are bad for NOx so if you have an EGR on the manifold get it working.
"Our watchword evermore shall be: The Maple Leaf Forever!"
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joscorstjens
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| posted on 24/12/06 at 12:25 AM |
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The eec IV probably will not support an O2 sensor as the original Sierra 2.0 Si did not have a cat ??
No EGR present, for the same reason. Tests will be done on an idling and then on a hi-revving engine.
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C10CoryM
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| posted on 24/12/06 at 12:46 AM |
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Hmmm, well obviously I don't know enough about the seirra application to be of help. Sorry.
You have me curious now though. I haven't seen where the ECU is just running a fuel map with no fuel trim. Kind of defeats the purpose of
EFI?
If thats the case, sounds like maybe you just need to try passing emmisions, and if you fail let us know what the gases read and we can tell you if a
cat will be much help or not. The only other option would be to trick the ECU to thinking it was either hotter, or richer than it is. Change
resistance of the CTS or the MAP/MAF/airflow meter. Or just induce an unmetered vacuum leak if a MAF style .
Cheers.
"Our watchword evermore shall be: The Maple Leaf Forever!"
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