Arthur T
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| posted on 25/1/07 at 11:06 PM |
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Rover V8 - - - -simple power?
looking at engines at the moment,
Zetec:
-engine = 200
-webers= 300
-manifold=100
-Engine management = 300
- odds & sods = 100
thus 1000+ tunning + all different parts to get it to fit in (water pipes etc )
Total = 1250 POUNDS ich = 275BHP
Rover V8 :
one complete rebuilt engine with every thing fitted = 1000
odds and sods 100
Total = 1100 ich = 220BHP
is this not easier? and sounds better?
or am i nuts?
(sorry pound sign does not work)
[Edited on 25/1/07 by Arthur T]
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DIY Si
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| posted on 25/1/07 at 11:18 PM |
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Whilst it may have more out right power, it's how that power is given (ie power/torque curves), and the weight and size of the engine has to be
taken into consideration. The RV8 is fairly heavy, compared to a zetec, and the power comes in very low down, which may not be the best option for
such a light car. The engine is also fairly large, needs two exhausts ect, so may be more expensive to install. Besides, a bike engine will cost about
the same, although it's not everyone's cup of tea.
Oh, does that say 275 bhp form a zetec? That's some very well prepared one if so! 150+ is more likely.
[Edited on 25/1/07 by DIY Si]
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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RazMan
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| posted on 25/1/07 at 11:27 PM |
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What about the Ford V6? My Duratec produces 200 bhp quite easily and it is very light for a V6.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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NDC790
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| posted on 25/1/07 at 11:29 PM |
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no such thing as simple power!
I've worked with both engines fairly closely in both road and race cars.
I would say it depends what you want.
They are both very different, if you know the type of performance you want, it should be an easy choise.
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James
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| posted on 25/1/07 at 11:32 PM |
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what about gearbox price too.
Cheers,
James
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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craig1410
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| posted on 25/1/07 at 11:56 PM |
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Yep the RV8 gets my vote!
Contrary to what Si is saying above, it's not that heavy in reality as it has an alloy block and heads. Wikipedia says of the engine, "The
compact engine was extremely lightweight..." There are various figures quoted but I'd say 140Kg's wouldn't be far away with
essential ancillaries fitted. It's no K-series or bike engine but if weight is your primary concern then a bike engine is what you want, end of
story.
I would also disagree with the statement that all the power comes in low down. Power on an SD1 3.5 litre engine peaks at 5250 RPM. However, peak
torque is developed at 2500 RPM and the torque curve is very flat so you get ooomph right across the rev range. This makes for very relaxed but swift
cross-country cruising. You can also blow away the boy racers in their VTEC's without sounding like you are even trying!!
Here are a couple of useful links:
http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?engineroverv8f.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_V8_engine
Good luck!
Craig.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 12:00 AM |
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Fair enough, I assumed (wrongly it would appear) that the engine was heavier than that. And that the power came in lower down, as in a just off tick
over kind of way. They do sound good though. 
Oh, how compact is it for a V8? Is it, say, twice the width of a zetec?
[Edited on 26/1/07 by DIY Si]
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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stevebubs
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 12:05 AM |
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Add to this...
Bellhousing for chosen gearbox
Chosen gearbox
Exhaust
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Simon
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 12:06 AM |
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Rover V8 - good one :- £ 300
Pair Audi S4 turbos:- £ 147
Pair R5 Intercoolers:- £ 15
Stainless for new exhausts £ 200
Pipework for i/c's £ 50
Emerald £ 550
Total £1262
Obviously, if you get an engine for £100, and use MS, you should be able to save £400ish, so may have 300bhp for just over 800 quids
I think that sounds like a plan
ATB
Simon
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DIY Si
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 12:10 AM |
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Wouldn't a big chevy be cheaper? Although that does indeed sound like a plan!
Oh, just how long do you intend a set of rear tyres to last?! 
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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jlparsons
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 12:12 AM |
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LS7...? Someone's got to!! 
Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during
shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Subject to
approval, terms and conditions apply. Apply only to affected area. For recreational use only. All models over 18 years of age. No user-serviceable
parts inside. Subject to change. As seen on TV. One size fits all. May contain nuts. Slippery when wet. For office use only. Edited for television.
Keep cool; process promptly.
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craig1410
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 12:12 AM |
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DIY Si,
I doubt it will be twice the width of a Zetec as it fits in a standard width Locost. My Locost is +4" to make it easier but I am assured that
people have fitted them in a standard chassis. Try fitting two Zetec's in a Locost and you might struggle... 
Simon, you are mad.....mad I tell you!!
Cheers,
Craig.
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ayoungman
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 12:13 AM |
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I'm playing with a v8 at the moment. It would take twice the width of the zetec not including exhaust routing of course. It doesn't weigh
much more than a pinto in real terms. The height would be the same as a zetec in my opinion. Power, to get 225 bhp would cost more than £1000.
Standard rover v8s range from 95bhp to 145bhp in normal form. It would depend on the original vehical that it was put into.
I wouldn't even consider putting one into a 7 type car. ford duratec gets my vote.
"just like that !"
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DIY Si
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 12:14 AM |
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I'm not saying it is twice the width, just trying to get a picture in me head. I've only ever seen them hidden in the depths of rangies
before, so have no idea how big/small they actually are.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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craig1410
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 12:15 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
Wouldn't a big chevy be cheaper? Although that does indeed sound like a plan!
Oh, just how long do you intend a set of rear tyres to last?!
If you are talking about an iron block chevvy then those ARE bl00dy heavy!! I think Simon's route to power is much more
"interesting" let's just say...(mad though)
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craig1410
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 12:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ayoungman
I'm playing with a v8 at the moment. It would take twice the width of the zetec not including exhaust routing of course. It doesn't weigh
much more than a pinto in real terms. The height would be the same as a zetec in my opinion. Power, to get 225 bhp would cost more than £1000.
Standard rover v8s range from 95bhp to 145bhp in normal form. It would depend on the original vehical that it was put into.
I wouldn't even consider putting one into a 7 type car. ford duratec gets my vote.
Just a few corrections:
1. Isn't twice the width of a Zetec - assuming you are including carbs/efi and exhausts.
2. Is lighter than a Pinto not heavier
3. 225BHP can be achieved within the £1000 budget if you spend wisely and start with a good second hand engine. You could get 200BHP by spending a
good bit less.
4. Standard Rover V8's ranged from 91BHP to 225BHP
Cheers,
Craig.
[Edited on 26/1/2007 by craig1410]
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locost_bryan
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 03:01 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ayoungman
Standard rover v8s range from 95bhp to 145bhp in normal form. It would depend on the original vehical that it was put into.
Figures for Landrovers!!!!
P6 150bhp
SD1 155bhp
late Range Rover 3.5 165bhp
Vitesse 195bhp
Elfin stuff the alloy Chevy V8 into their MS8
Bryan Miller
Auckland NZ
Bruce McLaren - "Where's my F1 car?"
John Cooper - "In that rack of tubes, son"
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Fred W B
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 06:13 AM |
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Early Rover RV8 mass
Having found various posts on here re the mass of a Rover RV8 motor, which seem to disagree, thought I would weight the one I have in the garage.
It is a very early 3.5 motor from a P6, engine number 4550100886A, which was built between 1967 and 1976, according to www.rimmerbros.co.uk
The total mass, including starter (9kg!) , water pump, alternator, engine rubber mounts, inlet manifold and distributor came to 125 kg.
Note that the following were not included:
Standard Exhaust manifolds (5 kg each)
Flywheel to suit manual gearbox (14 kg)
Clutch (6 kg)
Carbs
Fan
Oil Filter
Oil
Water hosing
Water
So a complete motor with exhaust manifolds, flywheel and clutch but without other items mentioned above would weight 155 kg or say 340 UK pounds. (1
kg = 2.20462 pounds)
Cheers
Fred W B
 
engine front view
[Edited on 26/1/07 by Fred W B]
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Danozeman
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 06:48 AM |
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Rover V8 is a good choice. But
Zetec
Engine 100-200 quid max
Bike carbs 30-40 quid
Bike Fuel pump 5 quid
Manifold 100-200 quid unless u make one up
Type 9 50 quid max.
Megajolt 100 quid
500 quid plus exhaust.
Decent power light engine...
You have to consider the grin factor of the V8 rumble aswell
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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Agriv8
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 07:37 AM |
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Id go V8 even with the amount of ear bashing I get from the MNR Hairdryer crew .
The v8 is cheap ( apart from the fuel !! )
Gearboxses are the main issue a good SD1 will be ok but finding a good one these days is geting harder the later r380 ( are alot better ) then there
are the getrags ( bmw ) and T5 ( ford ) John earls will do you a bellhousing.
Real steel will sell you a Tremac box and bellhousing but we are talking ££££.
Grin factor every time. PS its makes crusing easy 5th or drop it into 4th for overtaking !!!
one thing to add to the equation for the V8 is depending on the ratio in your gearbox you may need to source one of the 3.14 diff ( and I would sugest
an LSD ! ) this is going to add to the build cost.
Regards.
agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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britishtrident
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 08:00 AM |
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Law of diminishing returns
Excluding the induction and ignition a Zetec cost roughly 80 quid, plus a few bits from other Ford models to fit it.
Really no point in aming for more than the 180bhp which is relatively easy to get with all standard internal parts because a Seven style car with
180bhp is already much much faster than anything you can imagine unless you have driven one before.
For induction and ignition just megasquirt it with bike throttle bodies or a Rover manifold.
With the ancient wheezing 1950s designed Rover lump everything has to be bigger and heavier --- gearbox, battery, starter, alternator, exhaust (x2)
fuel tank.
No Rover V8 I have driven ever produced anything like the power that was claimed for it, in fact if you want Rover power it is probably easier and
cheaper to produce a 200bhp from K16 or T16 Rover engine for a lot less weight.
[Edited on 26/1/07 by britishtrident]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 08:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Really no point in aming for more than the 180bhp which is relatively easy to get with all standard internal parts because a Seven style car with
180bhp is already much much faster than anything you can imagine unless you have driven one before.
A seven style car with around 100bhp is probably much faster than most can imagine - especially when your arse is 4" off the deck and
you're staring at truck wheel nuts every few minutes!
[Edited on 26/1/07 by David Jenkins]
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tks
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 08:53 AM |
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yeah
i would go V6 duratec if you can pay it else i would go zetec.
The V8 engines we talk about are like bus engines they are made to pull not to run fast... i wet a zetec car with 30BHP less is faster as a V8
lump.
Cornering?Wheelspin?
nah every engine to its thing.. and a V8 is not for a seven IMO, a seven needs to be quick and agile not a cruise chip there are other cars that are
better for that..
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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G3OFF
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 09:12 AM |
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nah u want a decent V8.. there aint nothin like em... the sound alone makes the V8 a top contender
p.s.like your install simon.. i had a similar idea after to long in the pub..
[img][/img]
no such thing as to much power......
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Agriv8
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 09:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tks
i would go V6 duratec if you can pay it else i would go zetec.
The V8 engines we talk about are like bus engines they are made to pull not to run fast... i wet a zetec car with 30BHP less is faster as a V8
lump.
Cornering?Wheelspin?
nah every engine to its thing.. and a V8 is not for a seven IMO, a seven needs to be quick and agile not a cruise chip there are other cars that are
better for that..
Tks
TKS Your quite entitled to your opinion.
But my v8 is light, nimble, agile just dont need to keep changing gears to overtake stuff.
Wheelpin this is easilly avoidable by controlled use of the acelerator !
Cornering - No problems most rover v8 is in the bottom Crank / Flywheel ect.
But hey I am biased
Regards
Agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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