robertst
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 04:41 PM |
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camber problem
mounted the front axle today and my happiness swiftly ended when i relized the top wishbone seemed too short to let the upright be vertical.
is there a way i can remedy this? in the pic, the ball joint is at its maximum and even so, the upright is horribly tilted. 
 
Rescued attachment camber.jpg
Tom
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Schrodinger
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 04:53 PM |
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The bottom wishbone looks rather long and the steering rack looks as if it will have difficulty reaching the hub.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 05:01 PM |
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From the looks of your bottom wishbone mount at the rear, it looks like it is hanging outside of the chassis by about an inch? It should be well on
the chassis rails. And of course the wishbone pivots should be parallel to the centreline of the car.
I would suggest that your bottom wishbone mounts are too far outboard for some reason.
Those are GTS 'bones arent they? Did you tell GTS you were using them on cortina uprights? The wishbones are different for cortina and sierra
uprights (I know 'cos i had to have some made)
David
[Edited on 7/3/07 by flak monkey]
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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stig mills
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 05:03 PM |
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It looks like chopping off the bottom mounts and moving them in may be the cheaper option. Track width will reduce though, regards Stig Mills
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 05:12 PM |
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Agree with Flak Monky, those btm wishbone brackets are well outside the chassis compared too mine, mine are that far inboard I also welded them too
the two inner chassis rails that triangulate the engine bay, sorry book long passed on so don't know tube numbers.
Also for safety reason don't even think about running with that much thread showing on the top ball joint, track rod end thingy.
The chassis is pretty bare at the mo, will take a pic if I can.
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andyps
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 05:15 PM |
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Are they bones designed for use with Sierra uprights, but Cortina uprights?
[Edited on 7/3/07 by andyps]
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 05:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andyps
Are they bones designed for use with Sierra uprights, but Cortina uprights?
Was going to post exactly the same thing. The bottom brackets would have to be moved inboard a huge amount to get camber to reasonable level AND get
most of the balljoint thread back into the top wishbone.
The bones do look very long though, perhaps it's just camera angle or something.
[Edited on 7/3/07 by MikeRJ]
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 05:24 PM |
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Lower bracket, sorry bout out of focus.
 
Rescued attachment topjoint1.JPG
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 05:25 PM |
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Top swivel joint........
 
Rescued attachment topjoint.JPG
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 05:50 PM |
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Ah. You have Cortina uprights on Sierra width wishbones. I had it the other way
here You can see that my upright was hanging the other way. As Calvin says on the
thread, the top wishbones are the same, its the bottom ones that are different lengths. I had to get correct length bones and then, as I suspect you
may have to do, I had to hack off and then reweld some of the brackets that I had fully welded! I did get away with one or two though.
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robertst
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 07:10 PM |
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there is no sierra / Cortina choice in GTS website. it just has regular "Book" wishbones and W7DE wishbones. i bought GTS 552b ones
which.... OH! WAIT A TICK! i know what happened!.
the bottom 'bones are ok. but according to GTS's website there is only one option available for the top wishbones so logically these top
wishbones are made to the book dimensions, whereas, the W7DE ones should have included longet top wishbones aswell!
so its a matter of declaring my top wishbones useless and trying to make my own top wishbones (which is exactly what i did not want to do (hence why i
bought them).
So i think the cheapest option would infact be to make my own top bones.
do u agree? i mean i dont want to fiddle around with the chassis anymore. i might reconsider moving those brackets inwards as, i agree, they
don't look very safe to me... plus they will end up interfering with the bodywork!
oh my god theres so much work to do!
searching around the forum, i found that the tube diameter for the wishbones is 1 inch. is that correct?
i would think it is 3mm wall.. any info on this?
thank you all for your help.
Tom
[edit: ok.. basically what mistergrumpy said.. cheers mate!]
[Edited on 7/3/07 by robertst]
Tom
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robertst
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 07:26 PM |
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Right now i see two options:
1) make a longer top wishbone
reading mistergrumpy's thread, someone said cortina wishbones are somewhere near 30mm shorter than sierra ones so:
2) shorten the bottom wishbones (probably 30mm, maybe a bit more). a cut and weld job.
i'd acutally prefer not to fiddle with the bottom wishbone as if you look towards the background, the hub is almost perfectly aligned with
respect to the back (although there's no rear axle yet ). IMO track width is spot-on.
so i probably prefer the first option. do you think it's feasible to replicate the top wishbone, but longer?
thanks again
[Edited on 7/3/07 by robertst]
Tom
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caber
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 09:53 PM |
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you can make new wishbones but forget the jig info in the book it will not give you a sufficiently accurate result. The new book has a lot about
wishbone jigs in it. you need to start with a very solid metal frame to weld the 'bones in otherwise they will distort. you also meed an M18 tap
to make the thread in the tube. these are expensive so if you can't borrow one you may be better to just buy a new set of top bones and try
selling your existing ones here or ebay!
I had the problem in reverse so I had to chop a chunk off my top bones that were all nice and powder coated
Caber
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ProjectX
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 10:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by caber
you can make new wishbones but forget the jig info in the book it will not give you a sufficiently accurate result. The new book has a lot about
wishbone jigs in it. you need to start with a very solid metal frame to weld the 'bones in otherwise they will distort. you also meed an M18 tap
to make the thread in the tube. these are expensive so if you can't borrow one you may be better to just buy a new set of top bones and try
selling your existing ones here or ebay!
Caber
I agree wih the idea, however watch the thread M18 some transit are M20!
Threaded tubing can be got on Fleabay for a couple of quid.
With the bones if you need to weld your own
1. Something flat
2. Keep the (chassis end) bushes together. ie use a piece of tube for the bush tubes then cut to size afterwards
HTH J
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robertst
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 10:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by caber
you can make new wishbones but forget the jig info in the book it will not give you a sufficiently accurate result. The new book has a lot about
wishbone jigs in it. you need to start with a very solid metal frame to weld the 'bones in otherwise they will distort. you also meed an M18 tap
to make the thread in the tube. these are expensive so if you can't borrow one you may be better to just buy a new set of top bones and try
selling your existing ones here or ebay!
I had the problem in reverse so I had to chop a chunk off my top bones that were all nice and powder coated
Caber
i dont need threaded tubing, i have the camber adjusters which i WILL reuse. current wishbones dont have a threaded tube.
[edit:] you had to cut a chunk out of your top bone? i would have to do the same thing for my bottom one, but im very weary of weakening the entire
wishbone.
how did it go for you?
cheers
[Edited on 7/3/07 by robertst]
Tom
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ProjectX
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 10:25 PM |
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quote:
i dont need threaded tubing, i have the camber adjusters which i WILL reuse. current wishbones dont have a threaded tube.
So if not what does your ends screw into??
Dont cut the bottom bones, extend the top ones. The camber adjusters have nothing to do with it!
HTH
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robertst
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 10:31 PM |
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errr.. yes they do, thats how my top ball joint is held with! let me show you:
the wishbone itself does not have a threaded tube, it is the camber adjuster (gold thingy) which is slid from behind and locked with the ball joint
nut...
Tom
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ProjectX
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 10:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by robertst
errr.. yes they do, thats how my top ball joint is held with! let me show you:
the wishbone itself does not have a threaded tube, it is the camber adjuster (gold thingy) which is slid from behind and locked with the ball joint
nut...
Mmm Ok I see what you mean! Not sure I would trust that idea of a Gold Thingy, but I cant say I know how it works! Not sure it would pass SVA in
UK!
Anyway my point is change the upper bone will be easier and keep the track same
J
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 10:47 PM |
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The GTS-552b wishbones are for the "wide track" option which (AFAIK) you would normally use on a standard width chassis to match the
track of the Sierra rear suspension. Putting wide track wishbones on a +4 chassis is going to give you an enormous track, which explains the
discrepancy in you steering arm lengths. I think the 552a bones would have been the correct choice.
Also, I thought the GTS wishbones were designed for use with the Sierra upright which is what their own cars uses, though I may be wrong.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 10:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ProjectX
[Mmm Ok I see what you mean! Not sure I would trust that idea of a Gold Thingy, but I cant say I know how it works! Not sure it would pass SVA in UK!
Why would it not pass SVA providing the edges were protected? Many of them have already passed with no problems. It's a superior solution to
the standard design as you don't have to remove the ball joint to adjust camber, and you can adjust it as little as you want (standard system
has to be adjusted by one complete turn at a minimum.
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andyps
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| posted on 7/3/07 at 10:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ProjectX
quote:
Originally posted by robertst
errr.. yes they do, thats how my top ball joint is held with! let me show you:
the wishbone itself does not have a threaded tube, it is the camber adjuster (gold thingy) which is slid from behind and locked with the ball joint
nut...
Mmm Ok I see what you mean! Not sure I would trust that idea of a Gold Thingy, but I cant say I know how it works! Not sure it would pass SVA in
UK!
Anyway my point is change the upper bone will be easier and keep the track same
J
Pretty sure the camber adjust would be acceptable for the SVA - basically it locks on the outer end, but when loosened off can be adjusted from the
inner end. This allows fine adjustment of the camber, unlike a conventional type which can only be adjusted by multiples of a complete turn of the
thread. Alan Staniforth uses this method in his competition car suspension book. I suspect it also removes the chance of thread distortion when
welding threaded tube for the link. All in, a nice way to do it, but not the root of the problem being faced here.
[Edited on 7/3/07 by andyps]
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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James
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| posted on 8/3/07 at 12:35 PM |
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Passed my SVA fine with it.
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"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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