merkurman
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| posted on 6/8/03 at 08:18 PM |
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bigger chassis?
for my first build I want ot use a 2.3L ford (oversized USA pinto engine) it is a tall motor and was wondering if I should bother making the chassis
taller or jsut cut a rather large opening inthe hood for bits to stick out? being my first build it will be more of a learning expirence so not to
concerned on looks. in the US I have no SVA to pass just have the local DMV...(just need lights, mirrors, horn) I plan on doing a full custom mid
mount bike engined car after a 7. so just make a book chassis or a mcsorely car and go from there?
nick
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JoelP
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| posted on 6/8/03 at 08:48 PM |
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The sump can be cut down a bit, for the rest either raise the bonnet or reposition any movable bit - maybe the air box if thats on top. and i believe
that other things can be done like a new head with lower bits (oil filler cap etc.)
not familiar with the engine so sorry if thats not much use or sense...!
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 6/8/03 at 08:54 PM |
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I have a 2.0 Pinto in my book chassis, if starting again I would have made a chassis 4" wider, to leave room for the exhaust manifold, give me
more choice of seats, and to make room for the alternator - at the moment I am going to have it gaffer taped to the rear axle and run by elastic band
from the propshaft.
From the height point of view, I jacked up the nose cone to clear the cam pulley
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mranlet
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 04:56 PM |
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I say:
Go for an obscenely large hood scoop to allow the engine extra headroom and cooling and maybe even to get some fresh air into the filter...
As far as the exhaust is concerned, I have one word for you - STRAIGHTPIPES!!!
Make is a badass American 7 
-MR
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merkurman
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 05:09 PM |
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well I am stuffing in a turbo version so no need to run a muffler at all (turbine wheels count as a muffler in my state) prob not running a scoop
either, just a large hole to let it all hang out. I might have to rework the turbo system since the throttle body sits over the cam cover. or no and
just be lazy for now. as far as fittin g a 2.0L in a book chassis is it a real tight fit or doable? the 2.3L uses the same bell pattern if that
helps. for a transmission I am planning on a 4 speed rail shifted german tranny...has a cast iron case and alloy tail I think the type 9 is based off
of it. could use a T5 but the weight difference is pretty large. am planning a IRS using my ford bits. for a front rack my donor is toast and was
thinking of a pinto rack (VERY common aftermarket item in the states can choose length and front/rear steer) and the seirra uprights.
what bits off the seirra should I take? wish these cars were more common over here.
nick
1962 fairlane with a 200" six and T5 5spd, shaved trim air ride, t3/t4 turbo and soon to be EFI
-- looking to put a offy tripower intake on soon
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jbmcsorley
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 06:24 PM |
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Merkur (sierra) donor
Hi Nick,
Here are some thoughts on your project if your interested... (or even if you're not )
The 2.3 engine is very tall and quite heavy. 28" overall if I recall correctly... and that's not including the turbo unit over the valve
cover.
A book chassis is 13" tall with a standard nosecone being 7.5" across the back. That's only 21.5" to cover your 28"
tall engine. Granted, you can trim the sump a little (maybe, 2" or so) and the engine can sit below the chassis another two inches as well. A
typical Locost chassis is 6" from the ground with 4" clearance at the sump.
Anyway... That places your revised 26" tall engine two inches below the book's 21.5" frame... leaving 2.5" sticking out the
top. Not bad really... a power bulge can take care of that.
ChampionMotorCars.com in Alabama sells a nosecone to fit the book chassis and it has one addition inch to the height across the back (8.5"
total).... now your powerbulge is looking more intriguing and less grotesque (for lack of a better comparison).
You could bump the chassis height by 2 inches and possible... just maybe, avoid the need for a bulge at all.
Speaking of increasing the chassis size... I think the flange-to-flange on the Sierra is 59.75"... rather wide for a book chassis. A lot of
Sierra donor builders are upgrading their chassis with an additional 4" width. Along with the extra height, it kind of makes sense that the
entire chassis should be upscaled to maintain the proportions.
Have you seen the +442 drawings on my website? I've since revised that plan even further (and added detail for the triangulation that was
previously missing). I greatly simplified the front end to eliminate the goofy compound angles, and I revised the rear bulkhead area for added
strength, more roll bar options, more coil-over options, etc. Oh, and I set up the drawings so you can work with a series of sub-assemblies that all
lay flat for a "staged" construction process.
Right now I'm tearing into an Merkur donor and I'll start working on an IRS design there after. If you are interested in the revised 442
that I'm refering to then I can send you 36"x24" large format printout complete with a material list. Email directly and
we'll work something out.
As for the IRS... I'm working on it. I know that a lot of Sierra donor builders would benefit from the kind of detail shown on my site. Just a
matter of time now that I got my hands on a merkur.
Cheers,
Jim
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jbmcsorley
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 06:29 PM |
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Oh, and I forgot to mention that unless your 2.3L has (4) bolt holes across the top (which some of them did), then the 2L block and the 2.3L block do
not share exactly the same pattern. The typicaly 2.3L bolt holes across the top of the bell are about 1.5" higher than the typical 2L
block.
The bellhousing from that German 4 speed will mate the Merkur Type9 tranny to a modern Zetec. If you have those bits, you might consider selling them
off to a Zetec fanatic and use the money to sport a beefy T5 with a typical mustang bell. They are cheaper to rebuild in the States, a lot easier to
come by, and while they do weight more, then can also handle a lot more.
As you probably know, T5's are slipped into Merkurs all the time because the T9's tend to lose it after boosting up the 2.3L.
Hope that info is helpful. - Jim M.
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merkurman
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 06:54 PM |
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well the german hummer weighs about 30# less and is much smaller. the 2.3 and 2.0 bells are the same but the guide pins ar edifferent (have been
plaing with 2.3L's for almost 10 years and the only c4 you can get behind a 2.3 is early pinto 2.0L bell) I have access to a t5 also but it is
just so much larger. the hummer has similar pricing for uprated interals and stronger parts. and I already have several 2.3L turbos laying around.
my first build so I was going to keep things simple.
nick
1962 fairlane with a 200" six and T5 5spd, shaved trim air ride, t3/t4 turbo and soon to be EFI
-- looking to put a offy tripower intake on soon
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mranlet
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 07:00 PM |
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In that case, go rat-rod style:
No hood!
-MR
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andyps
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| posted on 7/8/03 at 08:50 PM |
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Jim,
quote:
As for the IRS... I'm working on it. I know that a lot of Sierra donor builders would benefit from the kind of detail shown on my site. Just a
matter of time now that I got my hands on a merkur.
Iam sure there are lots of us who will be really grateful when you have done this. Any approximate idea on time scales - it would be really
frustrating to have just started when they are ready
Cheers
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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andyjack
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 11:01 AM |
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I would just like to echo the above. A comprehensive set of drawing for a IRS system would be a massive help for new builders in the UK. Live axle
donors are few and far between and this is reflected in the prices being asked. In contrast mechanicaly sound Sierras are two a penny with no worries
about sourcing parts for many years.
I wonder what the situation will be like in 5-10 years time, what will we do for donors then?
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blueshift
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 11:23 AM |
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de dion de dion de dion de dion
I thank you
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Metal Hippy
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 11:25 AM |
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Be Beemer Be Beemer Be Beemer Be..... Sod this.
You know how it continues...
Cock off or cock on. You choose.
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drmike54
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| posted on 14/8/03 at 09:07 PM |
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2.3 Turbo Locost
Hey merkurman I'm building a Ford 2.3 Liter Turbo Locost. The build is going pretty slow. I have had the engine partly disassembled for 2
months. I plan on using Jim McSorleys +442 Chassis. with a T5 tranmission and Tbird Turbo rearend.
Heavy but cheap!
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jbmcsorley
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| posted on 18/8/03 at 08:15 PM |
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Sierra IRS plans
Hi Andy/AndyJack,
I just picked up a merkur/sierra the other week and I'm still parting it out. The bits are on the driveway... I just have to find the time to
draw it up.
I'm collaborating with Tim Fiddy to prototype the basics (thanks for your patience Tim!), and then I plan to offer up full detailed drawings
with suspension bits and all.
At the current rate it will take me another 6-8 weeks to get everything sorted. I know there is real value for me' mates across the Pond... but
life seems to have it's own priorities lately. I will be sure to post my progress when I have more to report.
Cheers, - Jim M.
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andyps
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| posted on 18/8/03 at 09:43 PM |
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Thanks Jim, that is great news.
If there is anything we can help with from this side of the pond let us know and I am sure we will help if possible.
Looking forward to the plans.
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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Dale
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| posted on 22/8/03 at 11:55 AM |
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also doing the 2.3lturbo build--just about to buy the steel and still checking out chassis sizes. +4 width and at leat +4 lenth is a must, but not
sure if I want to go with an extra +2 in chassis height.
Had figured on 4.5 inches clearance to the pan and a steel or thick alloy skid plate under it. engine height is very close to 28.5 inches but I am
being generous and saying 29.( that include the almost 4 inches of throtalbody and turbo and intake pipes.) There is space to cut at least an inch-
to 1.5 inches out of the pan but have to see how low the bell housing and t5(not world class for the 84 that i am using) hangs from the block is.
Measured on the engine that a scoop would have to be started a maximum of 10 inches from the front of the engine and should be 22 inches wide to cover
everything.
Leaving space for air flow on both sides I would not want the engine compartment less than 27 inches wide
engine is 25 inches long
bell and t5 is 32 inches
Big question is how noisy are these things on a strait pipe- I did not know that the turbo could be considerd a muffler in some areas. I had thought
of just using staight 2.5inch pipe to a cherrybomb muffler. I want to be able to hear the whine of the turbo but not have it to load as to bother the
neighbours if I take it to work at 6 in the morning.
Also probably be doing the glasswork myself and if I do I would prefer a more rounded bonnet with a scoop- preferably more like the stalker v6
More rounded bonnet and scuttle may allow for more engine height and lower chassis sides.
????
Dale
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