Shantung Black Tiger
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 12:13 PM |
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Where to start with a MGB V8 rebuild
Over the last couple of years I’ve been rebuilding a Fiesta 1.1 into a 1.6 track day car (see www.BlackTigerRacing.co.uk). Now that’s nearly done I’m
looking for my next project. The fiesta will still be kept as a track car / run-a-bout for my girlfriend, as it costs nothing to run and is quite fun,
but I’m ready to move onto something a bit more serious having cut my teeth on a basic rebuild.
After bit of consideration I’ve decided on getting an MGB and performing a V8 conversion on it, along with building it into a Sebring replica (similar
to this chap.. http://www.mgbv8.co.uk/finished.htm only without the independent Jaguar suspension) .
I’m at the “working out what I need to do and figuring out approximate costs” stage now. There seems to be plenty of people offering help and advice
on the web, although I still have a few blanks to fill in.
My basic plan is to do the conversion in three ish stages. Firstly source a MGB GT (rubber bumper model) and get the shell back into showroom
condition… e.g. get every tiny bit of rust out of it and under seal it all up nicely. This will give me some good opportunities to perfect my MIG
welding too.
Once I’m happy that the shell is sorted I’ll be moving onto brakes and suspension. A lowering kit (new springs ... coils front and new leafs rear) and
some adjustable gas shocks will replace the old style dampers. Along with the addition of a front anti roll bar and some V8 style anti-tramp bars on
the back to tighten things up some more.
My question here is, will this be enough? I know that this is pretty much the setup of the original factory V8’s (plus modern dampers) however with a
3.9 ltr engine tuned to say 250 bhp (ish) will they be strong enough assuming the prop shaft and drive shafts hold, to not twist with the torque?
Second question is regards breaks. I’m planning on getting hold of some reconditioned SD1 vented 4 pots for the front, with the car only weighing
900kg I’m hoping these will cope at speed. Are any more modern breaks, rover 600’s / ZS180 units that would fit?
The final part of stage two will be to add on the Sebring kit i.e. flared arches and front/rear valances. This will then enable me to put on some nice
alloys with plenty of rubber for added grip.
All this will then lead to the final stage, dumping in a 3.9 rover V8, along with the rigmarole of adjusting gear box cross member and making a few
adjustments to the transmission tunnel. I’m hoping to be fitting an SD1 5 speed gear box off a V8. Improvements to the diff (new crown and pinion) and
replacement prop shaft too. Question here is again will this be enough???
Once the engine is in then some mid level tuning will be done. 270 cams, either up rated injection or a holly/Edelbrook 4 barrel carb and maybe some
basic porting and gas flowing of the heads. All this will be well down the line though.
So as it stands I can figure out rough costs of the first stage, basic restoration and to be fair this will take a good 6 months of my time anyway. I
want to have a good idea of weather my plans for the suspension and brake updates I have in mind are going to be up to the job too. I can “roughly”
price these up and know what I have mentioned above is financially doable for me. Fitting the Sebring and V8 engine can be done in 2 – 3 years time if
needs be, so long as I’m confident that the chassis I have prepared is up to the job in the first place.
So essentially what I’d like before I start is maybe one or two chaps to say.. oh yes what you’re saying is close to what’s been done before and
should work., or don’t be daft that’ll fall apart as soon as you touch the power.
Just to note: at the end of each stage I won’t be rebuilding and putting it back on the road, just that I'll have the option to if there was a
change of circumstances. But in essence I will strip the GT shell down, remove the rust and re-spray it, (having kept all the original running gear
just in case). Then buy the new suspension and brakes parts and fit them to the restored shell, followed by fitment of the engine and improved
prop/diff lastly. The idea of doing things in stages was simply to give me bail out points if I run out of money really.
Thanks for taking the time to read through.
Any comments, ideas or suggestions welcome. Including better ways of doing the suspension.. E.g. possible kit car applications for rear wishbone
conversions that might be an option, or other V8’s … Simon has already suggested the Chevy LS1, but it’s a bit pricey for my buget.
Check out my website with blogs on my last project and pictures of my Cars and Bike:
www.BlackTigerRacing.co.uk
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BenB
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 12:15 PM |
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Can you get a new Heritage MGB chassis?
Not a cheap option but it can speed up the build!!!
They look very nice 
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jambojeef
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 12:25 PM |
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Why not just buy an MGRv8?
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britishtrident
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 12:32 PM |
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Hertitage shell
With the B you can get a LOT of hidden rust.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 12:41 PM |
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This should help http://www.mgcars.org.uk/v8_conversions/rogv8.html
I considered doing an MGB roadster V8 myself before i built my first Tiger kit. My previous toy was a 1968 MG midget
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Shantung Black Tiger
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 12:42 PM |
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I've had a look at the Heratage shells, well online anyways, but I'd be looking at 5 grand outlay to begin with. A decent MGB and parts to
refurb and strengthen it I believe will be half that cost. I'm planning on doing all the work myself, and am not too bothered on the time scale.
Hopefully carful selection of my starting car will ensure I don't have one with rusted out A-pillars or too much welding to do.
I considered buying a MGB-V8 straight off, but then half the fun of converting a standard one is to say I did it myself.
Check out my website with blogs on my last project and pictures of my Cars and Bike:
www.BlackTigerRacing.co.uk
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Shantung Black Tiger
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 12:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
This should help http://www.mgcars.org.uk/v8_conversions/rogv8.html
I considered doing an MGB roadster V8 myself before i built my first Tiger kit. My previous toy was a 1968 MG midget
Thanks, I read through that just yesterday. Very informative.
Seems to imply that the standard suspension set up from a factory V8 is sufficent, but thats on a standard 3.5 (165bhp), I'm wanting to fit a
3.9 tuned to (250bhp) and am not sure it'll be enough to just copy the factory V8 setup.
Check out my website with blogs on my last project and pictures of my Cars and Bike:
www.BlackTigerRacing.co.uk
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 12:48 PM |
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The standard 3.9:1 rear axle ratio is way too high for a V8. You need to start looking for a V8 axle which is around 3:1 IIRC.
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 12:53 PM |
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How about this from within our kitcar industry then??
http://www.hawkcars.co.uk/parts/mgbsuspension/mgbsusp.html
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 01:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
How about this from within our kitcar industry then??
http://www.hawkcars.co.uk/parts/mgbsuspension/mgbsusp.html
better pics if you click into Hoyle engineering's own site bottom right. Not cheap though!!!
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Shantung Black Tiger
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 01:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
How about this from within our kitcar industry then??
http://www.hawkcars.co.uk/parts/mgbsuspension/mgbsusp.html
better pics if you click into Hoyle engineering's own site bottom right. Not cheap though!!!
ooh.. that looks perfect, right up until I saw the price. grrr. Maybe if I start saving now, by the time I finish getting all the rust out of the
shell i get then I will be able to afford the rear suspension setup.
Check out my website with blogs on my last project and pictures of my Cars and Bike:
www.BlackTigerRacing.co.uk
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02GF74
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 01:16 PM |
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I useda have an MGB, 72 roadseter so kinda took an interest in this.
you are right with starting with the post 73 models - rubber bumper since htey have the engine bay reshaped to allow for hte v8. ofcrouse these are
not as nice as the chrome bumper, plus cb are lower - but you can reshape t he engine bay to practise your welding.
I seem to remember ther was some work needed to the front cross member - or was that for a V12 conversion?
regarding the piece wise cnversion - make sure when you do the suspensio that is is v8 compatible; pretty sure it is but you don't want to be
doing it/spending money twice.
only other think I can add is the carb - there was a special one made for this aplication to keep the bonnet flat.
maybe efi will fit without bonnet mods?
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Shantung Black Tiger
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 01:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
I useda have an MGB, 72 roadseter so kinda took an interest in this.
you are right with starting with the post 73 models - rubber bumper since htey have the engine bay reshaped to allow for hte v8. ofcrouse these are
not as nice as the chrome bumper, plus cb are lower - but you can reshape t he engine bay to practise your welding.
I seem to remember ther was some work needed to the front cross member - or was that for a V12 conversion?
regarding the piece wise cnversion - make sure when you do the suspensio that is is v8 compatible; pretty sure it is but you don't want to be
doing it/spending money twice.
only other think I can add is the carb - there was a special one made for this aplication to keep the bonnet flat.
maybe efi will fit without bonnet mods?
Yes I think I read that you need to make alterations to the cb engine bay to get the V8 in. The cb are lower, but as I'm rebuilding the
suspension one way or another then the ease of mounting the engine takes priority. Sebring front and rear valences mean that asthetically there will
be little difference in the end if I start chrome or rubber.
I'm not too fussed about a "little" bonnet scoop to accomodate a nice carb, but I believe the EFi units fit under the MGB bonnet
anyway.
Hopefully with the right preperation and research before I start then I will only need to do each job once ... correctly. My old man is a carpenter,
the amount of times he's said, measure twice cut once must have eventually sunk i.
Check out my website with blogs on my last project and pictures of my Cars and Bike:
www.BlackTigerRacing.co.uk
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stevec
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 01:47 PM |
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Why not get the estate version? Probably a bit cheaper.
MGB estate
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britishtrident
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 02:24 PM |
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I think you perhaps need to take a few reality pills, £5100 for a new shell isn't that much when you consider the cost, time & effort
required to repair a B with the castle sections rusted out. Unless you have owned a similar vehicle you can have no idea how much rust you will
encounter.
You have also got to consider the difference in resale value. Car built on a hertiage shell will be a lot easier to sell attract a big premium over a
collection of welded up panels.
Also if you do start tacking on body kits and arches you will drastically reduce the resale value.
Concentrate on producing as near perfect a standard looking car as possible.
Also with a B at chrome bumper ride height the handling isn't that shabby once the roll stiffness is increased (particulrlyat the rear).
Also wedges between the front crossmember and the body to reduce the caster angle to make the steering lighter and more suited to modern tyres.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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will121
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 02:33 PM |
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i looked at doing it, there was a full right up on what you are thinking of doing in a mag possibly CCC a couple of years ago including the body kit
and wheels, i think ive still got a copy of it somewhere. if of use can copy and post, or il try and find some one with a scanner!
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 02:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
I think you perhaps need to take a few reality pills, £5100 for a new shell isn't that much when you consider the cost, time & effort
required to repair a B with the castle sections rusted out. Unless you have owned a similar vehicle you can have no idea how much rust you will
encounter.
You have also got to consider the difference in resale value. Car built on a hertiage shell will be a lot easier to sell attract a big premium over a
collection of welded up panels.
Also if you do start tacking on body kits and arches you will drastically reduce the resale value.
Concentrate on producing as near perfect a standard looking car as possible.
Also with a B at chrome bumper ride height the handling isn't that shabby once the roll stiffness is increased (particulrlyat the rear).
Also wedges between the front crossmember and the body to reduce the caster angle to make the steering lighter and more suited to modern tyres.
Thing is though that he has a specific car in mind that he wants to end up with - a Sebring version with a V8 fitted and uprating to handle the 250bhp
planned. I'm sure thats why the post is on LocostBuilders rather than the MG forums - because one thing i guess all us kit builders do is do
things how we want them to be and so there's a huge amount of knowledge to call on.
Restoring the body shell is surely down to the skill of the builder - and also can be the most enjoyable part of the restoration for many classic
owners (I was in the MGOC for years) so a Heritage shell isnt always strictly the best option. There are so many repair sections for MG's
available and time isnt an issue (but the wish to say "I built that" might be there)
I personally would think a Sebring replica would sell very well - but then again how many of us build our kits worrying about if it will sell (unless
its those builders who do it with the intention of a quick sale post SVA and then start on the next).
Go for it I say 
[Edited on 5/10/07 by Paul TigerB6]
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MG David
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 03:14 PM |
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On the shell prep front you could reduce the work and time by sending the shell from you chosen car to Surface Processing in Dudley for it to be
dipped.
On the rubber vs chrome shell, if its rubber you want it to be late rubber not early rubber as the early rubber shells did not have all the V8
features. Having said that if you use RV8 style exhaust manifolds you do not need the V8 inner wing extra dishes, just the forward rad and bulkhead
mods.
The SD1 gearbox, also called LT77, requires a mod to the trans tunnel. There is a Toyota box, the W154, which does not need this but it either needs a
home made adaptor plate or a bell housing from Dellow in Australia £££.
As far as the back suspension is concerned. I think you will want to add a panard rod. They can be made following the locost method of looking at one
commercially available and copying it!
For more sophisticated DIY live axle suspension mods try the following site:-
http://www.vord.net/cars/mgb_mods/updates.html
Also the Frontline Costello rear coil over 5 link kit may provide some ideas.
For further ideas another site to try would be: www.britishv8.org
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ned
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 04:28 PM |
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re different engines how about a modern bmw unit out of a 5 series with a manual box. just watch out for the ones with nicasil liner issues.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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MG David
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 04:30 PM |
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Modern DOHC per bank V8s tend to be a bit too wide for the MGB engine bay. However, a modern 60degree V6 would be very good. Is the Jaguar/Ford 3L
duretec a 60 degree? I know some V6s are 90 degree these days.
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caber
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 04:34 PM |
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I would also suggest starting with a heritage shell. The acid dip and phosphate route will cost almost the same. Going this route woulld alow you to
buy basically a scrap MG and retain its registration with V5 changes for colour and engine as required. If you get some of the salvage auction lists
you can get a doner for very little. I thing Practical classics or the other simmilar magazine have ben running a series on this sort of thing
recently though I suspect you want something a bit more radical. Classic cars current issue has an article on the 6 pot sebring cars built with
aluminium exterior panels there are a few pictures in there of interest.
I really would avoid a cheap rust bucket as a shell doner you will in the end regret it. I am helping a friend with a Triumph herald that was fully
restored 5 years ago by a pro company, braised shell repairs waxoyl and all, in that time rust has reappeared around some pof the brazed repairs, some
replacement pattern panels have rusted out so we are doing a lot of work again. This car has lived outside since restoration and been used as a daily
driver for most of that time but still I would find it very annoying to have to redo my own work after that kind of time!
Caber
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Fatgadget
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 05:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Can you get a new Heritage MGB chassis?
Not a cheap option but it can speed up the build!!!
They look very nice
I thought you had to prove you had a donor MGB before Heritage sold you one of their new body shells?
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paulf
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 05:47 PM |
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Ive got a 1970 chrome bumper BGT that I need to get out of my way .It is tax exempt but does need a re shell , has tidy chrome etc and has overdrive
and wire wheels.
I have owned it since 1983 and kept meaning to rebuild it and put it back on the road but can never find the time and money to do so.
Paul.
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Shantung Black Tiger
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 07:46 PM |
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I'd love to start with a heratage shell,
but to be honest I really don't have £5000 to outlay at the beginning of the project. One thing I do have is lots of time and determination,
some spraying experience and can weld a bit.
I'm quite happy to bide my time and choose a donor car that hasnt got too much rusting to deal with and take it from there. I am aware also of
the potential amounts of hidden rust I may come into contact with too. But I'm just gonna have to the best I can with what I have when the time
comes. I'm not planning on starting from a total rust bucket
I've just had an email off a chap from my usual forum (my regular car is an MG ZS180, and I post on xpowerforums.com) who runs a standard MGBV8.
Well I say standard.. the rear suspension, wheel hubs brakes and half shafts are standard with just uprated prop and diff. Front brakes are
MGB-V8's with competition pads and disks. The engine though dyno'd at 187hp at the fly NASP, and 257hp at the fly with a 50 shot of gas.
He's run this on 1/4 miles regularly with no issues at all. In short his advice was....
"So to summarise, shove the V8 in, make the running gear standard V8 spec and you wont go far wrong for a road use and sprinting. If you want a
well handling circuit car, go for IRS and a coilover setup on the front."
With this in mind I think I'll plan to do my best to get the most out of the standard MGB setup... lowering kit, new springs and leaf's
and uprated dampers, couplled with arb's and anti tramp bars.
Check out my website with blogs on my last project and pictures of my Cars and Bike:
www.BlackTigerRacing.co.uk
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DavidM
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| posted on 5/10/07 at 08:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stevec
Why not get the estate version? Probably a bit cheaper.
MGB estate
 'kin excellent!
David
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