sgraber
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 posted on 27/11/03 at 03:47 PM |
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3M VHB Tape - test results
Some of you may remember that I am intending on using the very high bond 3M tape to bond my ali floor paneling to the frame in lieu of any rivets.
(But with a Bondurant Panel riveted under the drivers footwell, thanks kb58).
I finally got the tape and bonded a 6" long 1x1 rhs tube to an ali test strip to see how strong the stuff really is.
So strong it's impossible to pull apart in a direct pull.  I could probably hang the entire car from the ceiling with this one 6" strip.
I'll be bonding the floor onto the frame today and will post photos later this weekend.
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Alan B
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| posted on 27/11/03 at 08:17 PM |
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Sounds good Steve.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and all US readers...
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 27/11/03 at 08:46 PM |
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Happy Thanksgiving to you and all US readers..
Alan, what exactly is it that they are so grateful for?
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 27/11/03 at 08:54 PM |
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surviving the first year against indians, disease, etc, methinks.
btw - I know that there are some really trick glues and planes are held together by em, but I think your are braver than me steve!
Do you get ads for a glue called solvite in the states - its for wallpaper and they glu a guy to a board and dnagle him over sharks
neat solution to the floor - im just too much of a pessimist to have tried that !
atb
steve
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 27/11/03 at 09:05 PM |
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On a slightly more serious note, when we use these modern super adhesives at work, we always use one mechanical fastener at each end of the run.
Aparently lotus also do this on the Elise floor
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Alan B
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| posted on 27/11/03 at 10:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
Happy Thanksgiving to you and all US readers..
Alan, what exactly is it that they are so grateful for?
No SVA?
Actually I think SVA is good...at least you know where stand (within reason)...over here it's much worse...
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Hellfire
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| posted on 28/11/03 at 12:33 AM |
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SVA
It would be quite good if the SVA Rules were at least Nationally consistant. Seems like some centres have different idea's on safety than
other's. Still, it's a 'third eye' to judge over what you done... which I think is good!
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pbura
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| posted on 29/11/03 at 02:45 PM |
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Hey, Steve!
Did you have a spare 20 minutes to bond your floor the other day? Just kidding, of course, but it should go way faster than riveting.
I once had occasion to remove a nameplate (made by 3M) from an office door. I am pretty sure that the thing was stuck on with this tape, and when it
came off it took a chunk of the door with it, despite my best efforts.
The recommendation for a rivet at the beginning and end of each run is excellent, as the only way to get the tape to budge at all is at the corners.
I don't think I'd use a Bondurant panel myself (for a candy-ass road car), but respect the precaution.
So how's it turning out?
Pete
[Edited on 29/11/03 by pbura]
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sgraber
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| posted on 29/11/03 at 02:46 PM |
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The flooring is attached to the car!
I used a fresh 80 grit flap disc on my angle grinder to scuff all the tubes and also the ali and then I applied the tape to all the tubes. I used 35
lineal feet of tape. Apart from being an incredibly strong bond, it also had the side effect of deadening all of the metallic ringing of the frame.
The whole frame sounds like a solid chunk now. It's very unusual.
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
On a slightly more serious note, when we use these modern super adhesives at work, we always use one mechanical fastener at each end of the run.
Aparently lotus also do this on the Elise floor
I have had several personal emails from people smarter than my self *(ok, no funny comments about my email server overloading...), that I should
consider using more than just the adhesive tape for the mechanical bonding of the floor to the chassis. If you are reading this, thanks.
I consider myself an optimist, but not an optimistic fool! When it comes to untested theories, even the most optimistic ones can turn tragic in the
blink of an eye. I haven't done any testing of the VHB tape and don't understand it's properties or know what it's behaviour
will be in a crash. For that reason, I am going to use the additional security of rivets. Just not as many as a regular chassis.
Pete, (just read your post while adding mine) - it took way less than 20 minutes to attach! You get one chance with this stuff. In fact, as I laid it
close for a final eyeballing, one corner touched the tape. Just a fraction of an inch. I couldn't pull it apart without bending the flooring.
Luckily, it was exactly in the right location...
Graber
[Edited on 11/29/03 by sgraber]
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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pbura
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| posted on 29/11/03 at 02:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
Apart from being an incredibly strong bond, it also had the side effect of deadening all of the metallic ringing of the frame. The whole frame sounds
like a solid chunk now. It's very unusual.
Pete
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 29/11/03 at 04:58 PM |
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if aircraft can be glued together i would have thouight a car would be ok
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 29/11/03 at 07:04 PM |
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yep - i hinted at that.
difference is boeing et al did lots of testing and research but Steve is faced with gluing it on and hoping the floor never drops out. There is no way
a home builder can be properly sure of what and when summat might fail.
We use a 3m glue at work to seal plastic 5mm thick viewing windows to a 2mm thick s/s panel. Its almost impossible to get off. We thow the panel
away...!
atb
steve
[Edited on 29/11/03 by stephen_gusterson]
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heyzee
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| posted on 29/11/03 at 08:52 PM |
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taped panels
i to have seen this method of fixing thirty foot steel panels to bus sides in the coachbuilding trade.allthough the bare metal has allways been primed
first,this is a good fast teckneque when building but a few years down the line when water and condensation sit between the chassis and the floor it
will creap under the tape and then it will become unstuck,needless to say your arse will be scrapeing along the floor if your lucky.i cant see the
problem with putting the right amount of rivets in.allso when mateing alloy panels against steel you shouldprotect the mateing face of one of the
panels with gaffer tape or something sutch like because when these two materials are butted together they react causing the ali panel to drop off..
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elewayne
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| posted on 1/12/03 at 05:08 AM |
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Tape
I'm glad you posted this as I have been considering doing this also. Even if you have to use some rivits, looks like the material between the
two metals would be a good idea. Shoukd keep every thing a lot quieter.
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alainmengoli@hotmail.com
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| posted on 1/12/03 at 10:32 AM |
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Just wanted to know how much the magic tape costs and where to find it? Can it be applied to human lips( i.e. when the other half goes off on one for
buying parts for the car).
regards
from a hopeful builder (nothing to do with the build)
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GO
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| posted on 1/12/03 at 10:39 AM |
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Wouldnt the glue itself act as a barrier between the two metals??
I would've thought using gaffer tape on one of the panels would effectively reduce the strength of the join between the floor and the chassis to
the strength of the glue on the gaffer tape...?
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sgraber
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| posted on 1/12/03 at 11:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by alainmengoli@hotmail.com
Just wanted to know how much the magic tape costs and where to find it? Can it be applied to human lips( i.e. when the other half goes off on one for
buying parts for the car).
regards
from a hopeful builder (nothing to do with the build)
http://www.vikingtapes.co.uk/tape5.htm
It doesn't stick to bodyparts...
Graber
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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MikeR
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| posted on 2/12/03 at 12:14 AM |
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are you sure? I couldn't find that bit - not that i was looking mind you officer, I was, errm, I was just errm, looking for a missing pussy cat!
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pbura
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| posted on 2/12/03 at 04:11 AM |
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Structural Performance Tests in Architectural Metal
Panels
Clink link above for some interesting tests with 5' X 8' building panels.
This tape is amazing stuff, but did deflect some in wind pressure testing. No outright failures, but enough movement to convince me that some rivets
are needed, at least on the floor as my ass creates a load of at least 60psf . The question is, how many? I'd ask a supplier, but am a
little bashful at this time because I would not be ordering immediately. Maybe one every 3 inches?
For side and rear panels, though, I would be more willing to risk going with tape alone.
Regardless of quantity of rivets needed, this material appears to be superb for weather sealing and insulation against galvanic reaction, and the
sound-deadening property that Steve described is as advertised, and way cool.
Pete
Pete
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drmike54
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| posted on 11/12/03 at 08:46 PM |
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Bondurant Panel?
Pardon my ignorance but what is a Bondurant Panel?
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pbura
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| posted on 12/12/03 at 04:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by drmike54
Pardon my ignorance but what is a Bondurant Panel?
Can't find the thread where user kb58 described it (maybe his website??), but it's an extra panel on top of the chassis rails in the
footwell area. This is in case the main floor should get peeled away in an accident.
Pete
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nick205
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| posted on 12/12/03 at 09:14 AM |
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Just been reading the thread and thought I'd add my experience with 3M VHB tape.
We have used it at work to bond stainless panels to Zintec panels to provide aesthetic exterior finishings to public access kiosks for outdoor
applications. Originally we spot welded the panels, together. This worked OK, but came apart too easily when the 'public' were allowed
to touch it.
Our metalworking supplier recommended the 3M tape and made us a sample enclosure. We haven't been able to get the thing apart, nor have the
caring 'public'.
On balance though I would still sit more comfortably with a few rivets under my bum - just in case.
ATB
Nick
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Findlay234
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| posted on 14/12/03 at 01:08 PM |
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which tape did you buy?
they do look fairly expensive as well, have to work out the cost of all the rivits ill use and the time taken to drill the holes.
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JoelP
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| posted on 14/12/03 at 05:07 PM |
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are seats normally bolted straight to the floor panel? if so im not suprised you all worry about 3m alone, i would too! my seat sits on a pair of
1" tubes, fully part of the chassis, so i may well have been OK just using the tape. Welded it now though so sod it...
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Cazzy R
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 posted on 19/12/03 at 09:17 PM |
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Is this tape only for metal to metal or is it suitable for a powdercoated frame?
Cazzy R
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