gearbox line up
Hi All,
As you can see due to my change of plan I now have an engine height issue.
Has anyone else tried fitting a tall engine. If so how have you got round the problem?
Or do you think that it will be OK and will just have to sit on a cusion!.
Cheers
Adam
whoa.. u may need a periscope!
gonna need a BIGGGGG hole in your bonnet
Ray
Now that's what I call a lump ! 
You could always lower it and fit24" rims for sump clearance.
<Crosses arms, rolls eyes, shakes head, taps foot of garage floor...>
Geez, does anyone ever thing to measure stuff first? It's not like a Locost is a fully-baked, completely-researched, guaranteed-to-fit,
screw-it-together-in-the-dark kind of kit.
You as designer... yes, designer, have to measure stuff. Yes, some brain work needs to go into these things; nothing is completely engineered for
you ahead of time.
So much for stating the obvious, in hindsight. All lecturing aside, thanks for posting the picture, it's a valuable lession learned, for
everyone.
OK - we're all taking the mickey, or giving lectures, but it doesn't help Adam much - it would be more useful to him if we could offer
solutions (even if it ends up as "use a different engine" ).
Adam - a good side-on picture would be useful so that we can see if it's as low down as possible.
Can any of those bits on top be removed and placed elsewhere?
What is that engine anyway? Folks have certainly fitted V8s before (e.g. the Rover/Buick lump) but that one looks very tall. Even the Dax needs a
hole in the bonnet/hood.
cheers,
David
(who isn't really trying to upset anyone... not today, anyway! )
[Edited on 18/7/06 by David Jenkins]
The engine looks like a v6 given the angle between the 2 banks of cylinders, though exact engine details would be nice
V8s have the cylinder banks angled further apart, which generally makes them slightly wider, but not so tall.
Various otions for you to consider.
1 find a different engine to use
2 Build a new chassis thats taller to acomidate the engine.
3 Some manuthactures make slightly taller fibre glass than others, but only by an inch or 2 so probably won't be enough
4 Start designing a big bonnet bulge or vent. In the second edition book there is a picture of a locost using a rover v8 that has a big bonnet
bulge/vent to accomidate the engine.
5 Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think you can have the engine sticking out of the bonnet for SVA, but it must comply with all the sharp edges
etc. like the rest of the body work and exhaust.
[Edited on 18/7/06 by clbarclay]
I know, I know. I did measure it all first, realised it was going to be big and said sod lets just deal with the cociquences when I get that far.
The engine is 1 24V 2.9 Cosworth lump from a granada scorpio.
Its got an ally sump with groves up the sides to accomodate the bolts so very difficult to shorten the sump.
In the picture the chassis is raised and inch and the sump is on the deck.
I am thinking of putting an extra rail around the top of the engine bay, making the nose cone taller (cut and shut) and placing bonnet on top of the
raised section.
what do you rekon?
6" of foam rubber to sit on or look for another engine as that just isnt going to fit.
Doug (a.k.a. garage19) has a decent 2.0 litre zetec for sale... (or did, a week or so ago) and that's just south of Ipswich.
David
It will still be tall, you will lose the proportions of the car and it might look strange.
Cut the sump or make a new one. A high scoop is properly better than a high bonnet.
The sump should still be reasonably easily modified - just weld it on the inside.
That should give you an inch or 2. Build the sides of the chassis up another inch, and drop the engine a further 1/2 inch - you may be somewhere
close.
Go for it
Seriously, If you are planning to SVA you will never get the sight lines required, you are either going to have to use a 'dining room chair'
as a seat or think again about the choice of engine. You will never get enough height reduction however you chop the sump (dry sumping would make the
most difference but still nowhere enough).
Lovely engine - perhaps you should change the type of car you are building!
- Alan
Okay, I'll be more helpful...
I don't think the sump should be cut down... it's the last thing to do with an engine that's going to see high G-forces. A dry-sump is
the best (though expensive) solution, and might be needed anyway. You can raise the sides of the car as mentioned, add a big scoop... geez, it's
a small car man!
Worst case, without giving up on your dream entirely, would be to trade that engine for another V6 that's a lot shorter.
I'd suggest another engine choice. Aside from the sight-line issue, body design issue, weight distribution issue, etc., the centre of gravity is
going to be very high. The car might be very tippy indeed. The Zetec is only 24" high...
As Hellfire seems to be a little slow off the blocks today, may I suggest a nice bike engine? Nice and low, and light, and more than fast enough.
See the York drag day results.
OK now you have me worried, whats all this about sight lines?? Its the first time I have heard this one.
Here is a thread on shortning t aloy sump whilde not reducing the volume. http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=46627&page=2
Something else I would think could be done is move the coil pack and whittle down or fab a new intake. This wouldn't work for your engine but
these are what I'm doing for a 351 Ford, possibly something similar could be done to at least limit the lump to the center of the hood, oops
bonnet. Pointing the throttle body toward the firewall.
quote:
Originally posted by ADD
OK now you have me worried, whats all this about sight lines?? Its the first time I have heard this one.
quote:
Originally posted by ADD
OK now you have me worried, whats all this about sight lines?? Its the first time I have heard this one.
Get a Viento Chassis... It would look lost in the engine bay
I think you have the eingine mocked up too high. It appears that the crank centerline is very high and the transmission output is very close to the
top of the tunnel.
I may be wrong, because the photo is at an angle and difficult to accurately judge, but I think you should try a mock up with the chassis at least
another inch or two higher relative to the drivetrain.
You will certainly lose some ground clearance, but you should still have enough.
quote:
Originally posted by ADD
OK now you have me worried, whats all this about sight lines?? Its the first time I have heard this one.
You'll need to stand up to drive that fecker . Get a Cobra to fit it in or build a hot rod, you are missing the point of the car.
quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
You'll need to stand up to drive that fecker
By ADD
quote:
If you are talking about the lowcost, low-weight aspect of it then I am afriad that is all lost on me!.
Adam,
Good on you for trying something different and good luck in getting it going!!!
Firstly, bite the bullet and chop the sump, if worst comes to the worst use your current one as a template and fabricate a new one. I'd recommend
you braize rather than MIG as you'll fill the holes better!
Dry sumping would be good but I don't think there's a cheap way of doing it is there? Not and have it being reliable.
What about sourcing a compatible shallower sump from another capacity engine?
You can afford to lose some capacity when you chop... or cheat and remote mount the filter to add capacity back in!
As for the top end, what about pulling off the induction system and fitting bike throttle boddies or chopping down the current one?
I've added 1" extra into my chassis with an extra rail round the top, it's effective and easy but a bit ugly! You can drill the extra
rails to lighten or use ali maybe? It makes the nose cone end of things a bit harder though.
Also, the GTS bodywork is about 0.75" taller than standard Locost stuff too so you may be able to use this to get more height still.
Hope that all helps, keep us updated
Cheers,
James
i was about to suggest puting megasquirt on 6 throttle bodies and letting them stick out of the bonnet. vintage race car style
may even look cool
+ shortening the sump, low cost style
just keep tennis balls in the boot to put on the velocity stacks when you ^park the car 
even better
or you can just get another engine.. simpler and maybe cheaper
Thanks guys, I raised the chasis last night to see what it would look like. I will post some pics tonight, but it seems a lot better. Interestingly my
engine is 27" high - only 3 inches taller than a zetec.
I will be doing the sump at some point, but looking at the bottom of the gearbox this will only give me an inch extra.
I do fancy the idea of having six trumpets pointing skyward, looks uber cool. However that will have to be a modify when complete kind of job. Funds
cant afford 2 sets of triumph throttle bodies.
You are right James I did fancy something a little different.
Adam
Adam,
I am going the V8 route (US builder). I am using a Lincoln (Jaguar) 3.9/4.0 L alloy engine (for weight). It is only 24" tall.
Attached is a picture of the engine.
Cory
Atlanta, GA
Rescued attachment Photo_071806_001.jpg
What does it weigh?
I have not weighed my engine but specs from the web indicate 441 lbs "fully dressed" (intake, exhaust man., and accessories). Remove the PS
pump and AC compressor, you get 400 lbs and 290 hp with the V8 noise, this is what got my attention. The supercharged Jaguar version puts out close
to 400 hp.
Cory
[Edited on 21/7/06 by Piledhigher]
How unfeasable would it be to remount that beast in the back of the car, ie build a middy!
that would be cool running 2 sets of bike carbs (ballance tubes between opposing runners) or 2 sets of throttlebodies.
very nice looking engine
[Edited on 21/7/06 by violentblue]
violentblue,
You have read my mind.
Cory
Piccies as promised
Chassis raised 1 1/2"
drivers view
This is the view from the drivers seat, the top of the uppermost sight glass is about eye level
nose cone fit
This is how the nose cone lines up at the mo
[img][/img]
All coments welcome as always
I agree with James, as most times
An inch or two on the sump and you are pretty much home. The engine isn't that tall, I believe it looks worse than it is because it's so
wide at the top. If you make your own plenum it won't do much on the hight but you can take some of the width and get the intake at the back.
Cheers!
Is that a Tiger nosecone designed for a Pinto engine? I still think you would be better changing the style of the car to suit the engine. Redesign the bodywork to look something like the old racecar style of the Bugattis from the 20's with a taller nosecone and a higher bonnet but with the wheels, brakes and suspension brought up to date, that would be different.
As you mentioned it, it just so happens that I'm planing to use a tall engine too.
con2
Might change the front to a cut down Ford '34.
Right just read that whole post after only just seeing it, today. I would say dont worry, it will probably fit- no bother!
I had similar problems as the vortx is quite a low tight chassis as it generally has bike engines in it but when i fitted my zetec lump the engine
first stuck 12-13 inchs above the top chassis rail - and the sump stuck well below! what about yours?? from the pics yours looks around 14-15 inches
or a little more- which in my car would be 3-4 inch buldge.
but
Ive had the sump shortened and moved the engine down now it only sticks out 10 1/2 inches and fits snugg under the bonnet. I think from the picture
your engine just looks bulky and will fit in the end if you get your sump shortend and fit you engine out the bottom of the chassis a little- just
make a sump guard to be safe
this is mine fitted......
yea its not as wide- but its height we are talking about here?
whats your height??
[Edited on 23/7/06 by Krismc]
I bit the bullet and did as I was told and had my sump shortened. Its now about 1 1/4" shorter than it was.
sump 2
sump 1
very nice job!
One concern I have (and I'm not trying to p*** on your chips here) is that the type 9 box will last all of ten seconds behind that engine!!!!
You need to get an MT75 box in there now before you do too much more chassis work as the mt75 is bulkier though shorter.
You will be ok with the type 9 as long as you put a gearkit in it, but that will be £700 or so, whereas sticking together a "converted" MT75
will be £100 ish.
You need an XR4x4 MT75 box and a 2.0 dohc sierra/granada MT75 2wd box. Remove the front casing from the 4x4 box and bolt it onto the rear half/cluster
from the 2wd box, job done. You use std XR4x4 2.9 clutch bits.
Hopefully I'm not too late with this advice, but I know of several people that have attempted to do exactly what you have done (in other cars)
and their type 9's lasted a matter of days (1 day in fact in one case, one standing start smashed it completely!)
That cossie v6 is a torquey blighter!
i'd add an extra inch tothe top rails of teh chassis (or build it int he first place with 1x2" tube round the top like adamr is to
accomodate his rv8) or scrap the nosecone and buy luego velocity grp which is 2" taller than book/lowline stuff.
Also see if there's anything you can trim from teh rocker cover or ancillaries you can relocate as appropriate.
Ned.
I had the 2.8 version in a dutton 7 style car without a sump chop or bonnet bulg, granted the sides are slightly taller than a book 7 but you
shouldn't have too much trouble getting the body work to fit.
My only comment would be that you are going to need some seriously wide/good quality rubber to put the power down, I had 8in rims on the back with 245
tyres and they would easily spin with a little right foot provocation in all gears and I only had the 2.8 with twin choke weber!
Best of luck to you!
Alex
Description
[Edited on 11/8/06 by se7ensport]
quote:
Originally posted by se7ensport
I had the 2.8 version in a dutton 7 style car without a sump chop or bonnet bulg, granted the sides are slightly taller than a book 7 but you shouldn't have too much trouble getting the body work to fit.
My only comment would be that you are going to need some seriously wide/good quality rubber to put the power down, I had 8in rims on the back with 245 tyres and they would easily spin with a little right foot provocation in all gears and I only had the 2.8 with twin choke weber!
Best of luck to you!
Alex
Description
[Edited on 11/8/06 by se7ensport]