Hi guys, noobie here so take it easy on me .

Ive always been looking forward to starting to build a kit car for ages now and Ive been researching a lot to do with the MK Indy R. I was just wondering if anyone has built one of these and knows how much the project is likely to cost? i have a budget off about £5 or 6 k and have most of the tools needed to build it... i think. :S

Also what level of knowledge do you need to have to start on a kit car. I know a good bit about engines but as far as kits go themselves I'm fairly clueless on how to build them. I take it the build manual is pretty unambiguous?

Also what donor is good, one of my dads mates has a 330i BMW engine (1990s) with about 30000miles on it he says i can take off his hands for free. but is that too powerful for a kit car?

Many thanks,

Cal.

Personally I would say your being a bit ambitious with your possible engine choice. With the small budget you have you need to keep it simple.

as your donor car is free then i'd say go for it! but it might be a little tight in the indy. look into the viento which is a bigger chassis i believe.

the 330 would be a great donor! there is no such thing as too fast! there are much faster cars than that on this forum and we're all still going!

with a bmw 6 donor you'll need a gkd chassis as they're designed for it


It'd be nice to see another make of kit with a IL6 BMW motor though.

I would have to agree with davestarck, the more you go with a solution that is not frequently built, the more you will have to customize and the more it will eventually cost.

If you are serious about building something, I would sell the donor and use something that many have built in the past. BEC, ford or something common.

As for cost, many are hidden. The deluxe kit may sound pretty complete, till you start, then you realize its really about 65% of what you need, and I am not including the engine in that percentage.

As it stands today I am about 7k in (not including my engine cost) and I have some ways to go.

With that said, do not back off or it will never get done. Do what most of us do. Start the project, forget about the cost or the money, pay for it in small bits and pieces, take it slow and eventually it will get done

If you really are hung up on that engine, then do it.

You can easily get some money back by selling off bits of the car that you don't need.

It would be much easier to do something everyone else does..but it's something everyone else does. It is nice to have something a little different. A nice 3 litre bmw engine will be different and pretty awesome!

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Originally posted by fimi7
I would have to agree with davestarck, the more you go with a solution that is not frequently built, the more you will have to customize and the more it will eventually cost.

If you are serious about building something, I would sell the donor and use something that many have built in the past. BEC, ford or something common.

As for cost, many are hidden. The deluxe kit may sound pretty complete, till you start, then you realize its really about 65% of what you need, and I am not including the engine in that percentage.

As it stands today I am about 7k in (not including my engine cost) and I have some ways to go.

With that said, do not back off or it will never get done. Do what most of us do. Start the project, forget about the cost or the money, pay for it in small bits and pieces, take it slow and eventually it will get done

If you really are hung up on that engine, then do it.

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Sweet i reckon thats what ill do then for a 1st time build... keep it simple.. what sort of engine is common for an indy? i mean i could always sell the bmw 3 lite and add a bit more to the budget.. something like a sierra cosworth or something? i take it has to have a rear wheel drive train aswell?

Im a student at the moment so funds are alredy low.. (standard student lifestyle too much partying) been working my ass off every summer to get enough to buy one a few of my mates are chipping in too tho. a bit of a group project. Im living with 3 mech engineers and an electrical engineer and they are pretty keen to do it for their course. (personally im just lookin the free advice haha).

Have you guys got any photos of your cars that you can send me? I take it build manuals are fairly well explained?

Cal

Build manuals are the opposite of fairly well explained im afraid.... I am yet to see a half decent one... this website is the best build manual...

Plenty of life from a zetec its acheap install and quite common now

Have you considered fitting a motorbike engine?

Phil

Do you get a lot of power out of a motorbike engine? Im lookin to go fast in this baby haha

For power/weight ratio and handling, BEC's take some beating.....

Phil

I'm a uni student and I'm putting an S2000 engine in, it's taking a while but when it's done it will be savage, with huge tuning potential.

I still vote the 330 engine, but..

Zetecs can be bought very cheaply and they take well to turbo kits.

Alternatively, the duratec can be tuned to around 180-200hp relatively cheaply. Nice all alloy engine, chain for the cams too.

From what I know of bike engines, they're hard to beat when you're out on full throttle all the time, but when it comes to traffic or just not very fast driving, they're very cumbersome. I'm sure others will voice their opinion on this! But I have noticed a larger proportion of people here with engines going pop having bike engined cars.

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Originally posted by SeanStone
From what I know of bike engines, they're hard to beat when you're out on full throttle all the time, but when it comes to traffic or just not very fast driving, they're very cumbersome. I'm sure others will voice their opinion on this!

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Originally posted by SeanStone
But I have noticed a larger proportion of people here with engines going pop having bike engined cars.

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Originally posted by eddie99
Build manuals are the opposite of fairly well explained im afraid.... I am yet to see a half decent one... this website is the best build manual...

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BEC's are just the same as any other car to drive in traffic.

In fact, a friend of mine had a Caterham with a tuned xflow fitted that was actually harder to drive in traffic than his current blade engined Lotus 7 S2.

For a cheap but rapid car, I reckon an early blade engine would be the best choice.

That said, any engine will be fast in a se7en of any type.

Don't get sucked in by the deluxe kit either - there are a lot of things on the list that you'll find cheaper elsewhere if you look around..

Decision made. INDY R. Seems to be a good few knowledgable people on here to help if things go wrong.

Whats the best (by that i mean CHEAPEST ) way to go about this? would you buy the pieces of the kit separately, get a starter kit or the deluxe? I was thinking get the starter kit which will give me something to play with until i have enough to continue. Would anyone have a list perchance of all items needed to build? And what part will i have to source from the donor vehicle apart from engine and ancillaries.

As for the engine i want something to make this baby go fast.. a zetec 2L perhaps or a sierra cosworth? Still not sure about a BEC.

Cheers

Try and get yourself a passenger ride in both variants ie, BEC and CEC and then decide which bike engine you want to fit.

Phil

might put my 11.5bhp lawnmower engine in it instead phil what u think?

Keep an eye out on ebay for part built/non started kits. Could save you a lot of money!

Zetec is a well trodden (and therefore well catered for) route to go for a car engine. They're robust, cheap and plenty parts to tune them, as well as the bits needed to install in a kit car.

As said though, have a go in a BEC before you decide. It might seem a little more expensive, but to tune a zetec to get that level of performance would cost a hell of a lot of money (0-60 in 4ish seconds from most BEC's). Plus, you get a 6 speed sequential gearbox that can have a wheel mounted paddle shift fitted for extra fun.

I had an R1 engined Indy and it was fantastic. When I build again, which may be either another se7en, a terrapin or maybe a middy of some sort, it'll be bike engine all the way.

Have a go in both though before you decide either way - there's bound to be someone on here who lives near you who'll be willing to take you out for a spin sometime.

My zetec is a 1.8 with 2 litre cams bike carbs and megasquirt it runst round about 150 bhp, Brother in law has a 2 ltre with fast cams lightened balance and stage 3 head it runs 199bhp would have possible got more but suffered fuel starvation at 5500 on hard acceleration. hopefully this is now resolved. His car will rev to 8k no problems

Bike engine is sounding more appealing now tbh i take it power to weight is wayyy better than in a CEC?.. also whats the noise like compared to CEC? i dont want it to sound like a scooter.. lol

Im sure i could find someone with a kit about.. if not ill be over to England at some stage to annoy some of you all at a kit car show!

Thanks guys.

you cant say one has more power to weight than another. unless you know the finished weight and power!
you might get a 130 bhp bike engined car weighing 500kgs or a 350 bhp cec weighing 650ks or the other way round. obviously any bike engined ar will be light wwhich is good in the bends and under braking. but after 2 bec's im going cart engined this time to see what its like!

you do know how to calculate power to weight ratio?
power/weight x1000 = bhp per tonne
so 100 bhp/500kgs = 0.2 x1000 =200 bhp tonne
200 bhp/500 kgs = 0.4 x1000 = 400 bhp tonne

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Originally posted by daniel mason
you do know how to calculate power to weight ratio?
power/weight x1000 = bhp per tonne
so 100 bhp/500kgs = 0.2 x1000 =200 bhp tonne
200 bhp/500 kgs = 0.4 x1000 = 400 bhp tonne

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you would hope so. but to say "bec's have a better power to weight ratio than cec's" is a bold statement. i reckon hicost and antinuk would gave something to say about that!

building a indy-r myself at the moment, albeit with a busa engine.

i think you might struggle to keep within your budget (mine was £10k, with the engine and its looking more like £12k), my kit came in at £5k (but i did spec it up and add some extra parts)

Yeah we know about power/weight calcs..

i think ill try and get a spin in one first before i make any decisions. Like i said before ive already for BMW 330i engine sorted but im thinking it might be a big too big. ill get the kit first then make final decisions about the engine.. ill probably sell the BMW and try and get my hands on a duratec or zetec something simple and that alot of people are building to start with.

cheers.

If you "get the kit and then decide on the engine" then you may not be surprised when an engine doesn't fit the mounts/cradle properly.

Do more research and narrow down your choices first.

Then get a run out in one or two.

There are a few KC's in Ireland (can't remember where and I'm sure they won't be your neighbours), but why don't you and you're friends book a late/saver ticket on the ferry and get over for the KC show at Stoneleigh Park, Coventry this weekend. I know of at least a handful of people that would take you out...

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Originally posted by daniel mason
you would hope so. but to say "bec's have a better power to weight ratio than cec's" is a bold statement. i reckon hicost and antinuk would gave something to say about that!

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bec's have a better power to weight ratio than cec's

There you go - a very bold statement!

CEC's are for girls.

Sits back with popcorn

If you "get the kit and then decide on the engine" then you may not be surprised when an engine doesn't fit the mounts/cradle properly.

Yeah steve, i was having a look about and i dont think the 330i fits in the oil sump sits too low under the chassis so unless i cut a bit off and welded it closed i dont think itll be fitting in and tbh im still a bit nooby with the welder haha. but what ive primarily been looking at is a duratec as ive heard these fit in quite well and have a good bit of power. i think ill sell the BMW engine and hopefully itll go some of the way to funding the new one..

Phil, What engine are you running in your hellfire atm.. i was reading your blog last night (Pretty darn sick! ) and the 0-60 figures are unreal. 3.8 secs. is that a BEC and is it tuned?

Cheers.

also think ill have to pass on Stoney this year.. have exams on next month so im flat out at the minute.. revision revision revision.. never hear the end of it. dont think i could afford to take a trip to stoney this year timewise and money (saving that for the car haha).. starting to get a bit snowed under :S ahh well .

altho i would quite like to meet a few of you all to add to the enthusiasm.

Any more in the summer?

all im going to say is, when i started mine, i had a budget of 6K, i have now hit almost 9K and not finished yet!

Its amazing how the credit card mounts up!


But go for it, so much fun, and im sure it will be worth the money once its finished.

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Originally posted by daniel mason
you would hope so. but to say "bec's have a better power to weight ratio than cec's" is a bold statement. i reckon hicost and antinuk would gave something to say about that!

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If you want to know what a BEC sounds like Linky

you probably could get slightly better power to weight for the money but by the time you have a reverse box,power commander,sprocket adaptor they start to add up price wise. where as a decent zetec could be had for very little money. obviously the bec's are much lighter and that is the biggest advantage to the handling and braking imo.

Well sick! i think ive just been converted! That sounds UNREAL! haha whats 0-60?

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Originally posted by Calzonii
Phil, What engine are you running in your hellfire atm.. i was reading your blog last night (Pretty darn sick! ) and the 0-60 figures are unreal. 3.8 secs. is that a BEC and is it tuned?

Cheers.

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