Hello everyone.
I am a high-schooler in the US and I have been looking high and low for a cool looking, relatively cheap priced, and powerful kit to build as my first
car. I stumbled upon this car on a website, and when I saw the price tag, I thought this may be the one. I have obviously never built a car kit
before, so can someone please point me in the right direction with some tips, a list of things needed (donor car, car kit, seats, etc.), and I would
REALLY like for someone to get me a decent list of some engines that fit that can be found for cheap. Thanks everyone!
-Erik
Hi Erik and welcome.....most of the members will be along to reply later as it's around 2.30am UK time...meanwhile have browse, read some
posts...and good luck
Alan in FL
Ok thanks Alan! And i'm glad to see you on here. Hopefully i will get some responses tomorrow.
Hi Erik, Welcome alone..
So what do you have in mind regarding the engine? One of your lovely big V8's or a bike engine?? I've just joined and purchased a bike
engine Mk Indy Blade and it's awesome fun..
No preference really. For me honestly it comes down to price and maintenance. I have never studied up on any type of bike engine, so what are some
that you would recommend? This would be my day to day car throughout high school, and I have heard from one person that a car motor would be more
suited for everyday use. Thanks for your help!
-Erik
I would think a Miata based one would be good for you.
They are plentiful and cheap on your side of the pond aren't they?
yeah, miata based 7 for sure. Check out qinetic vehicles I think, and flyin' miata. get Keith Tanners book on building a Miata 7, also Kurt
Belinskis book "Kimini" and his website "Midlana" are priceless mines of information.
Check out Steve Grabers site too, very interesting
Miatas can be cheap, I bought 2 crappy runners for $700 (for both) when I lived over there, Parted them out, kept the bits I wanted and made a
profit.
Just ask questions we were all in the same boat as you 
[Edited on 5/10/11 by liam.mccaffrey]
MK's are a great car whatever the engine really, and I would also suggest that if you are US based then a Miata would be the obvious choice...
Also, I beleive MK have a US based dealer, although I don't remember his contact name right now, but Alan will know him, I'm sure!
Also, the post above by Liam Mc is all you need to know right now re research and some forward planning/reading.
Obviously you have the time issues to deal with if phoning the UK but the guys at MK are great to deal with...
ATB
Steve
PS - put your location in your profile as someone may be nearby, or even travelling near you for a holiday!
mnr also have us dealer iirc
As far as costs go, unless you want something that doesn't look very nice, you will spend almost double here in North America, what the Brits do for theirs. Your life is made a lot easier just getting the parts from the kit maker, but he will charge you for all his shipping from the UK. It isn't a cheap project by any means - a hopped up Miata is going to be a better deal, $ for $.
Are there no native US 7 type kit makers (or kit makers in general)?
Also factor in the time to build - as most on here will testify, whatever time frame you set yourself will usually double or triple. Most take years
rather than months to complete due to other commitments and budget constraints. If you're looking for something to use through college a
modified road car (Miata) would seem the quickest and cheapest route. Once you're done, turn it into the donor car for your actual build.
None of the above should put you off the project - it's a fantastic experience and you will learn a lot and meet some great people along the way
whatever you decide, I would find other owners/builders and see what the supply and service is like, as some makers here can keep you waiting a long time and not provide the best service.
Over 25 years ago, I commissioned (helped with and funded) the build of a V8 Calvy Mitchell kit car. It won best car in show at the 1st Alternative
Car Show in Newark.
I have lived in Spain for 10 years and having surveyed the kit car market for quite some time, I can vouch for the fact that Spain is where the UK was
two decades ago in terms of the kit car market.
Prices here being asked, are 1.5----twice the price of UK. An R1 engined MK (marketed here as a Garbi) is sold by the "assembler" under
licence from 26,000 euros.
If you're interested, then check out www.autoscout24.com and search the 'buy' option: (compra) in the Lotus listing. eg a second-hand
MK R1 (RHD here in Spain) is going for 15k.
I mention this purely to illustrate the disparity between the levels of development of the kit car industry between European countries, let alone
continents.
[Edited on 5/10/11 by bobinspain]
[Edited on 5/10/11 by bobinspain]
quote:
Originally posted by mrwibble
whatever you decide, I would find other owners/builders and see what the supply and service is like, as some makers here can keep you waiting a long time and not provide the best service.
OP, this site would be a good read for you
Linky
Hi Erik, welcome to the forum.
Surprisingly, nobody has mentioned the man that got everything off the ground, Ron Champion. He wrote the book entitled "Build your own sportscar
for under £250". There's some good stuff in there with plans and instructions to make the car yourself. So,you can avoid expensive shipping
bills from the UK, gain a lot of satisfaction as well as picking up skills along the way. You are actually very lucky to be where you are. Hot Rod
shops, bodywork shops and machine shops abound throughout and Miller welders are very cheap. I'm sure that you will be surprised how much help
you have on your doorstep in the form of craftsmen and car clubs and generally, people are very happy to share their expertise.
This forum will provide a wealth of information on more or less any subject, car related or not. The data base is huge. Don't be afraid to ask.
We all started at some point and we can all learn.
Best of luck with your project. Please keep us posted with your thoughts and progress.
John
PS apologies WanchaiWarrior I missed your link
[Edited on 6/10/11 by John Bonnett]
Thanks for the responses everyone. I have gotten some messages from people stating that people in the US over here are getting "bad" quality kits and/or missing parts. I really don't want to run into those problems. Can anyone mention another kit to consider? Caterham is too expensive for me though. Thanks again
Flyin' Miata's Westfield kit is expensive but complete. They are very nice guys who deliver what they say they will. NOT a common trait
amongst kit people I'm afraid. In the LONG RUN, it may prove cheaper too, than importing stuff from the UK yourself. There is simply no really
cheap way to do this. A Miata will always cost a lot less, even very modded. BTW, the Caterham might be a lot of money too, but the resale value is
always there because of the quality and name.
I am sorry to tell you that the enthusiasm of others is shallow. It won't happen the way people make it out. You will have to pay for expertise
at every turn, turning your cheap project into Caterham pricing before you know it. I speak from experience in Canada, from a place with the largest
motorsports club in the country.
[Edited on 7/10/11 by RK]
Erik and others,
I'm not aware of any quality issues with MKs...I'll admit that sometimes we've had shipments direct from the UK to our US customers
that have had missing parts, but they have always been sent to the customer later.
Hope that clears things up.
Alan
RK:
How much did your build total then? Maybe this whole thing is just out of my league. To be honest the MAX i would spend is about 20k. I would really
really really want to get it lower than that though.
quote:
Originally posted by RK
I am sorry to tell you that the enthusiasm of others is shallow. It won't happen the way people make it out. You will have to pay for expertise at every turn, turning your cheap project into Caterham pricing before you know it. I speak from experience in Canada, from a place with the largest motorsports club in the country.
[Edited on 7/10/11 by RK]
I meant in North America, with people helping in the flesh. Why do you think I come on here all the time? It's therapy.
You could do it for 20K without much effort, but it can, and does, go a lot higher when you add a few mistakes. My car - a Deman SR7 - was a rather
incomplete, but new from the factory, KIT (official government lingo). It has cost me over $30,000 and counting (honestly counting). I made some
serious errors (ie. paid $900 for a useless donor - no, I used the seat runner bolts) and was not very knowledgable when I started. I now know quite a
bit of useless information, applicable to a vehicle nobody anywhere near me understands on this side of the Atlantic.
I think if you want a 7 type car in North America, you have to face certain facts:
1. The choice is limited (Caterham/Birkin (Dick Brink, Texas comes to mind), MK USA (Florida), Flyin'Miata Westfield, Brunton Stalker (V6 - big
car). That's about it from what I know.
2. You will absolutely spend at least 20k, unless you want your car to look terrible. Really.
3. Locostusa.com (hardcore welder/designer types - a lot of things seem to be left on the drawing board) and USA7's ("I have an expensive
Caterham, what do you have?" No, not everyone is like that obviously, most are very nice, but there is a certain snobbism, real or imagined from
C'ham owners everywhere) are very valuable resources, but different crowds on each.
4. It is an English car concept. Understood deeply by certain geeky English people, and very few others around the world (although we do exist).
Therefore, you cannot find certain things in certain sizes, all the time. A real KIT, complete as possible, is advised.
5. A 7 with the right engine is a scary fast beast to drive, and not that easy to drive well. Check how many people go off the road in England when
the rain and slippery roads begin at this time of year. It is NOT for everyone!
If you want dead simple, go with an FFR Cobra. They even have build weekends, where you stay in a local hotel in Mass. somewhere, and build one with a
bunch of other people ordering cars. Then when you go home to build yours (cost is quite a bit higher than for a 7) you know what to expect.
Whatever you end up with, do not lose the bookmark for this site!
Ok then. I guess the beloved Seven may not be for me. And by the way I think that Cobra is too expensive. Can someone name any kind of kit car that I could do for 10-20 thousand? I really want to build up my first car. Just buying something is not fun. Is there even something in my price range?
never underestimate the power of a volvo...........
quite easily the best donor stateside for cost/power/availability
Don't be put off by the bad experience of one person, although RK does have some valid points he does seem to have had a much more challenging
build than most. There are plenty of people with no mechanical/electrical experience who manage to complete a build without expert help.
The key to a smooth and budgeted build is in the research and planning but when you do have problems you will get help here if you give very detailed
descriptions and work in a methodical manner.
Davie
Davie is correct, but he is only considering his experiences in the UK. Unfortunately this is not the way things are over here.
Try to get some realistic pricing from Flyin' Miata. Keith will tell you how it really is. Maybe since the US economy is so bad, they might have
some deals or know of some. In any case, your budget should actually be double what you are predicting if you want something nice. No kit will be
cheaper than a highly modded street car. Why don't you take a high mileage beemer (cheap as hell to acquire) and strip it out and rebuild it (not
so cheap, but things are relative!).
Hey, I forgot about the Exocet from MEV. I seem to remember something about them wanting to export to the US.
Maybe get a hold of this guy, and ask how much he has spent. He's in the Seattle area.
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=9631
or import something like this:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/34/viewthread.php?tid=161124
[Edited on 9/10/11 by RK]
[Edited on 10/10/11 by RK]
Well Erik, I told you these guys would be brutally honest with you....I'd sooner you be put off now rather than being mad at us later...it is a
big undertaking, but I'd certainly say it can be done for under $20,000 so long as you don't go crazy on the blingy stuff.
Alan
What about the MK Engineering Beam-R? I'm sure Martin could supply everything you need except the three-series.
Are there special registration problems in the states?
I only ask, because kit car prices are low in the uk at the moment - look on www.pistonheads.com - you can buy a nice car, complete and on the road
for 6k, or 12k for something absolutely amazing. It doesn't cost that much to ship across.(it would be right hand drive though)
If you follow this forum for a while, you'll find 'part built' kits which may be a better start if you want your steering on the left
coming up quite often. Some just need wiring and a few bits doing. That would be a good start as you would get most bits for not much - have a look at
these fairly recent adverts(OK I know it would cost a few hundred to get it shipped to the states too)
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/34/viewthread.php?tid=161137
or
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/34/viewthread.php?tid=157912
Regards
Hugh
quote:
Originally posted by hughpinder
Are there special registration problems in the states?........
Perhaps you can find one which kept the original registration of a 25 year old car, and then had an engine upgrade to a zetec or duratec?
Regards
Hugh
I'm not in the States, but knowing what I do about the border guys, if they get a whiff of something they don't like, or take issue with the
age of the car, they can and will, impound it to be destroyed. They are the authorities, and you are but a small, insignificant ant by comparison.
If you talk to Alan or somebody who imports a lot of stuff, they can do all that importing stuff for you, saving you a lot of headache. Do read the
build by Peter in Seattle. He has been through a lot with his MNR, but imported his kit independently. Sometimes, things are worth paying for.
Suggest you hunt around and try to locate a semi finished project Kar.
Many are abandoned in process which can often take years... and are very cheap to buy, especially when you pay 1/2 their initial asking price.
The above also illustrates the other important thing to consider: the $20,000+- you will spend . Will be largely gone, as in : if it isn't a
Caterham (A known product with pedigree) the real world Resale value is about bugger all. Goodbye $20 K.
Very Few.. will pay more than cents on the $ for a 'Home Made Kar.'.. absolutely True.