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what engine - how fast?
smart51 - 6/1/05 at 08:43 PM

I'm thinking of building a bike engined indy but am put off by the cost - it might be a car engine or nothing,

how fast is a 1.8 sierra engined indy 0-60 and how fast for a bike engined one, just so I can get a feel of how much difference it makes.

Jon Ison - 6/1/05 at 08:49 PM

blag a ride in both n make your own mind up,

the expression "night n day" springs to mind.

1.8 car engine= prob quickest accelerting car youv'e been in

0.9 bike engine, blow your brains out.

andylancaster3000 - 6/1/05 at 08:51 PM

From what other people having mentioned on this site I would say that a well sorted Fireblade car will reach 60 in around 4 seconds. The 1.8 sierra engine (i'm guessing the CVH is the one you mean) would take somewhere in the region of 7 seconds to reach 60.

Please anyone correct me if I am wrong!

Andy

[Edited on 6/1/05 by andylancaster3000]

Jon Ison - 6/1/05 at 08:57 PM

if costs putting you off nothing wrong with fitting a car engine then doing a winter upgrade sometime, you won't be dissapointed whatever you fit under the bonnet.

CairB - 6/1/05 at 09:58 PM

Smart51,

I've sent you a U2U.

zetec - 6/1/05 at 10:22 PM

As said try both. Bike power works if you build light. The problem with car engine performance is that to get like for like straight line performance is more £££.

alister667 - 7/1/05 at 08:06 AM

If you want a cheap bike engined set up you could go for a CBR1000 or something. It'll gove you slightly less performance than a blade, but will still be far sharper than 1.8 sierra (as Zetec says, unless you spend lots of cash on it) and can be got for about 200-300 quid. Only problem is CBR1000 is quite low geared, but if you get the right diff / large wheels tyres that can be overcome.
All the best
Ali

smart51 - 7/1/05 at 11:01 PM

how low is low?

can I just swap a sierra diff for one of a different ratio or do I have to have big (heavy) wheels?

Crazy Jay - 8/1/05 at 09:44 AM

Get OZ superleggera, 7x17's weigh in at under 7kg's!! IIRC

carnut - 8/1/05 at 10:44 AM

Why do that when the 15's weigh 4.7kg!

donut - 8/1/05 at 05:13 PM

I had a 2 litre Ford Transit engine in my Indy and that was fast enough for me. It did 0-60 in under 7 seconds which is deff the quickest car i have ever owned. I was a passenger in the orig demo GT1 which had a Fireblade engine and that was DAMN quick!!!!!

1st gear was a little short but 2nd and 3rd were awesome, they really pulled the car along with loads of torque!

Everyone i spoke to chose the bike indy after they had compared the two because they are SO quick. There are a few things to consider. I don't think i could put up with the constant hi rev noise that you get with a bike car, then again i'm more of a V8 man myself.

Also it seems of late that there are a few people crashing their bike engined cars, so it could be down to the lack of weight so they may be a bit skitish. Also the cost. If you can get all the bike bits you need cheaply then go bike!

I found my Pinto indy to be powerfull enough but many are putting in 150-190bhp Zetec's and Duratec's etc so they will be fast enough i would think.

Take both out for a spin but think before you buy, can you really afford the bike option.

A thread on build costs may be usefull so you wil see what people have spent in real terms. I think mine came to about £4,500ish

Hope this helps

Andy


[Edited on 8/1/05 by donut]

britishtrident - 8/1/05 at 06:20 PM

If you look at Lotus/Cateringvan road test over the years you will get a a fair idea --- even with a 1300GT xflo the acceleration is pretty d***** good, fit a top stock Sierra engine will give you not far off 200 bhp per ton -- you would have to go a long way to drive a production car with that ammount of grunt.

In terms of power per pound (both kinds) bike engines are streets ahead but you get a spikey power curve and transmision arangements that to be honest are a bit "hand knitted".

These days most Locost builders won't have driven many powerful rwd cars let alone a very light one that oversteers and has a very low polar moment of inertia so maybe a bike engined car isn't a good place to start.

[Edited on 8/1/05 by britishtrident]

alister667 - 8/1/05 at 11:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by smart51
how low is low?

can I just swap a sierra diff for one of a different ratio or do I have to have big (heavy) wheels?


Something like a 3.38 diff Sierra and fairly tall tyres on 15" rims should be fine. Have a search on here for a program/spreadsheet called 'speedcalc.xls'
this allows you to select differnt engine/diff/wheelsize combinations then see what the max speeds would be (theoritically).
Ideally what you want is 60 mph or more at 6000rpm or less (in top gear), so it doesn't sound too laboured cruising up the road.
Again I know folks with lower gearing than that but most prefer more relaxed cruising.

All the best

Ali

Simon - 9/1/05 at 01:17 AM

"...very low polar moment of inertia..."

Eh! What's that then?

ATB

Simon

britishtrident - 9/1/05 at 09:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Simon
"...very low polar moment of inertia..."

Eh! What's that then?

ATB

Simon

It is to do with how fast a car responds to a changing in steering input. Cars like the Locost which have the heavy bits -- engine gearbox and axle mounted close to the cars centre of gravity have a low polar moment of inertia.

Sometimes called the dumbell effect but really more of a flywheel effect of the distribution of a cars heavy components --- and thier distance from the cars c of g have a big effect on how fast a car will turn in to acorner. A car with a low polar moment of inertia is like a very light flywheel it will respond to the steering much quicker giving less understeer on turn in on tight corners but if the tail breaks out unless caught immediately it will spin out very quickly indeed. Another downside with a car with a low polar moment is it is very easy to over correct a slide and end up with the car spinning in the opposite direction.

A car with a high polar moment turns in more slugishly but when the tail breaks away it happens more slowly -- the downside is it also takes a lot longer to repond to steering correction to the skid.

DEAN C. - 9/1/05 at 11:48 AM

There is an in between engine,small,fast,light and a screaming 8000rpm.It's not quite as quick as a blade but not far off either,and you dont have to put up with too high a rev range to drive anywhere,And you can run on it's standard injection and ecu so it is cheap to buy and get running.
Toyota 4age!!!
Sounds gorgeous too!

alister667 - 9/1/05 at 12:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DEAN C.
There is an in between engine,small,fast,light and a screaming 8000rpm.It's not quite as quick as a blade but not far off either,and you dont have to put up with too high a rev range to drive anywhere,And you can run on it's standard injection and ecu so it is cheap to buy and get running.
Toyota 4age!!!
Sounds gorgeous too!


Dean,

What sort of money range would a 4age cost?

Cheers

Ali

DEAN C. - 9/1/05 at 04:03 PM

You can pickup complete Fwd corollas up for £250-£400 which will get you all the ancilleries, loomand ecu etc.
All you need then is a Toyota rwd corolla box(like hens teeth)or a Ford type 9 and Raw bellhousing adapter.£500-£700 total I would say.Less if you look around for a smashed car and drop on a cheap T50 box.It's possible to do it for £300 if you really tried.Oh plus the exhaust which you would have to buy for any engine at £350.

Alfalfameister - 10/1/05 at 12:10 AM

quote:

Less if you look around for a smashed car and drop on a cheap T50 box


I was thinking of getting the T50 box myself to mate with a 4AGE 20V silver, but since you called it "cheap", I want to know your thoughts on it.

The W50 (or was it 55?) was an option, but it's much more expensive, and 50%+ heavier than the T50.

Your opinions on the T50 highly appreciated.

DEAN C. - 10/1/05 at 12:49 AM

I didn't mean it was a cheap box to buy,only if you dropped on one cheaper than normal,hope that makes sense.
They usually go for £100 to£150 and about £250 ish for a recon.
The real problem is finding one,they haven't been built for about 17 years.
If you can find one the ratios are a bit closer than a Type nine Ford box ,which of course is another bonus.

Alfalfameister - 10/1/05 at 06:36 AM

Ah, good, so it's a gearbox that you would recommend, then?

Over here (Manila, Philippines), they're not that common either, but I'm picking up mine for about UK60-80.

The 4AGE 20V silvertop is about UK250, and the blacktop is UK500-600.... I'd like the blacktop, but the silvertop is what I'm getting.

[Edited on 10/1/05 by Alfalfameister]