Read this below on another post, as my indy is still on axel stands I would like to know the problem before it hits the road, could anyone enlighten me?
Cheers Tom ( Chassie bought 2001 should be on the road this March)

"Charlie (snoopy) You say that i have been slaging Mk and martin kenan off in previous posts. But actually all i have done is to disscuss on a discusion forum what is actualy commonly known. IE that the INDY has lets just say not verry good rear geometry. This is accepted by martin as he offers a service to re jig the backend to correct the problems and HATS OFF to him for admitting and offering to do this."

TOM for the every day person on the road your INDY will out handle anything you come across on the road

you will go round corners and most likely find your limits before th ecar finds its

I took bends so quick in mine it was unbelievable

certainly poo one or two passengers up

the talk about the geometry is more to do with racing so I wouldnt worry about it

unless of course your already are some out and out racer who may need every little ounce

Like the others above have mentioned, I wouldn't even worry about it unless you intend to race seriously.

If you have the car set up correctly, I seriously doubt whether you could induce positive camber anyhow, even on hard cornering.

Now I'm no expert but IIRC there is 1.5 degree of camber movement over the full travel of the rear suspension, so in theory, if you set the camber up at 1.5 degree negative with the wishbones in full droop, then at worst you're going to get the outside wheel vertical under hard cornering whilst the inside is 1.5 degree negative. Although this is probably not ideal in the racing world, its hardly cause for concern and certainly wouldn't be a problem for 99% of drivers.

You probably wouldn't even notice any more tyre wear.

Phil

[Edited on 26-12-06 by Hellfire]

And you lot should see the rear geometary on the Avon - and even after seing how wee poor it is on paper - it still handled well on and off the track.

Not worth the effort.

Pat...

Tom,

All the above comments are correct.
Basically the indy rear suspension is fine for road and occasional track use.
I have been using my Indy (now gone) for hillclimbs and sprints this past year and it can keep up with the best of the other cars. I regularly beat a westfield megablade and came very close to strikers and caterhams. Unfortunatley in close competetion every split second counts and the rear geometry will at some stage impede on lap times.

please see the photo below showing positive rear camber at farmhouse bend, Harewood hill this year. This is probably the fastest and longest corner on the hill and as you see i have plenty of rear camber. This was very hard cornering with the back end just on the edge of letting go.
My set up was standard springs ??
protec shocks
10 clicks front
8 clicks rear
16.5 psi all round (dont know why i put in 16.5 just seemed to work!!)

Image deleted by owner

I just noticed that it looks like i am holding a cigarette in my hand on the steering wheel. Obviously i am not............smoking is not permitted during a timed run and i dont have an ashtray in the Indy

[Edited on 27/12/06 by skydivepaul]

[Edited on 27/12/06 by skydivepaul]

I have no connection with MK or connected companies or individuals.

Just why do you think there is any such thing as correct geometry ? All suspension design is a comprimise change one factor and a different comprimise is required, unless you go out a buy a designed from scratch single seater the club racer has always had to develop a road chassis to his or her particular needs.

Running kit cars and club racing cars you have to do some brain work and get your hands dirty thats life if you don't like it buy a Cateringvan and go cheque book racing.

ps Axle not Axel

Have you ever checked a production road car against the manufacturers specs. I found the most important thing to get right was the bump steer issue
Tony
By the way if Martin tells me there is nothing to worry about unless I'm thinking of going competetive racing. I'll take his word

Just out of interest (my Indy seems to handle fine on the road, it out performs me anyway!)

What is it that gives the positive camber under hard cornering and how does martin change the pick up points to fix this.

Just wondered if any chassis gurus can tell me, helps me understand chassis setup.

Thanks

Will build it as is , and try it! But will have it at most of the UK tracks next year. although initial set up will be done at knock hill.

I would have thought when Martin takes a car in to correct a known 'issue' he is merely reworking the suspension for a particular application.

I have a feeling the word 'issue' is taken out of context (issue suggests problem) and that the cars, as said previously, or perfectly sound for their std application. Again as said previously, in my understanding their is no such thing as a perfect set up for all applications.

I would be so bold as to say that every single car has 'issues'. It just depends by how much you need to split microns in search for perfection. None of the manufacturers that we are familiar with will have super accurate jigs and robotic welding etc, i dare also bet that few would know how to measure repeatability let alone prove it.

The Future of Car Suspensions
While there have been enhancements and improvements to both
springs and shock absorbers, the basic design of car suspensions
has not undergone a significant evolution over the years.
But all of that's about to change with the introduction of a brand-new
suspension design conceived by Bose -- the same Bose known for its
innovations in acoustic technologies. Some experts are going so far
as to say that the Bose suspension is the biggest advance in
automobile suspensions since the introduction of an all-independent
design.



new sus

How does it work? The Bose system uses a linear electromagnetic
motor (LEM) at each wheel in lieu of a conventional shock-and-spring setup.
Amplifiers provide electricity to the motors in such a
way that their power is regenerated with each compression of the
system. The main benefit of the motors is that they are not limited
by the inertia inherent in conventional fluid-based dampers. As a result,
an LEM can extend and compress at a much greater speed, virtually
eliminating all vibrations in the passenger cabin. The wheel's motion
can be so finely controlled that the body of the car remains level
regardless of what's happening at the wheel. The LEM can also
counteract the body motion of the car while accelerating, braking and
cornering, giving the driver a greater sense of control.

Unfortunately, this paradigm-shifting suspension won't be available
until 2009, when it will be offered on one or more high-end luxury cars.
Until then, drivers will have to rely on the tried-and-true
suspension methods that have smoothed out bumpy rides for centuries.

"Bose known for its
innovations in acoustic technologies"

I thought it was expensive gimmikry. I worked as a professional sound man for seven years, every pro I met viewed Bose as a sort of joke brand bought by people who had believed the hype rather than buy any sort of serious sound reproduction system.



Mind, some people on here would say the same about MK as well.

That was a joke about MK by the way.