Ive recently read in a previous post about a flaw in the design of the mk rear suspension. Is this a real problem or just bull as i dont want to (quote) end up in a ditch . I know the MK has nowhere near the development as a caterham for example ....

[Edited on 2/7/07 by jaylatti]

Hi, so what is the problem with the rear set up ??

if you do a search its covered there.

As i recall its something like on full deflection of the suspension it gives toe in / out or something that can upset the car.

most people with the car don't seem to have a problem with it. I believe Martin Keenan has modified some peoples chassis by removing and welding on new rear brakets.

As i said, do a search, this is all from memory, its late and i don't own a MK.

Hi,

Depends on what you call a flaw, going round a bend very fast you will most likely find your limits before the car finds its limits.

Chris

In 6000 miles I've never noticed the problem and I have been known to push it at times. Must be my driving skill... Or the fact I dont know my arse from my elbow .

And yet no one mentions the Avon?

Same scenario as the MK, but more amplified.

Pat...

The top wishbone bracket is a little high therefore when the suspension compresses from max extension, initially the wheel goes into positive camber but returns to negative when compressed further. The can be observed of you jack the car up and remove the shock. But, when the car is sat at ride height the movement of the geometry is such that it will provide negative camber for the remaining travel. Obviously, going round a corner the body will roll so you will see positive camber while stood track side. This is why some track cars run approx 3 degrees of negative camber to allow for this. It’s not wise to have so much camber gain that the wheels are more or less 90 degrees to the road surface when cornering.

For road and track use if the car is set up as well as it can be, you should not have a problem.

Just for the record, the new Indy has completely new suspension geometry. I should know, I designed it. I have not really explained in detail to MK what the differences are, so maybe it’s my fault that when asked they don’t know exactly what to say.

Personally... I can't really see the point in buying an original Indy any longer. You now have the Haynes Roadster which, lets face it is a very similar car minus the rear suspension flaws, being made down the road by Mr Indy himself.

Am I wrong?

Yes but the bar wasn't set very high was it? I don't think you need "testicles" to type what you think on a forum or to take pictures then post them up after you've got home and call someone's product a pile of poop. I've seen TVR chassis with worse welds than that and how much did they go for? I'm not slagging or sticking up for anybody but I will say I've been in an old style Indy and it would take some doing to exceed it's limits under normal road conditions and nothing fell off or broke I've also bought stuff from GTS and got it in reasonable time without complaining and bought from MK, MNR, Lolocost and helped build a MAC#1 without any cause for complaint. I like my opinions, that's why I keep them to myself most of the time.

I'm not in this for the argument. It was merely an observation - I tend to use my testicles for other activities.

For what it's worth though, having tried to chase Caterhams and even a well set-up Locost through the bends on-track, the flaw is certainly noticeable and detrimental to progress.

That's not to say that I didn't really like my Indy because I did. On road it was very good fun.

Mad Dave has explained it perfectly and unless you're racing competitively, any issues with the rear suspension aren't a problem.

Our Indy has never been set-up professionally and to date we haven't noticed any problems in relation to the rear suspension on trackdays.

Then again, maybe it's because we don't drive it hard enough............

Phil

quote:

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Originally posted by CaLviNx
I'm going to Donnington kit car show and if anyone wants to discuss any matter with me without anyone thinking I hide behind a forum, I will be happy to reiterate anything face to face, so please, please u2u me and I will meet anyone who wishes to talk without hiding behind a forum......

So who's going to meet up at Donnington then......

---

and who's getting it?

Your coming across as way too aggresive there Mark for a friendly car forum IMHO...

This is what I wrote, you read into it what you thought I meant. Something you often point out that others are doing with your posts. I don't accuse anyone of "brain farting" whatever that is or not having testicles, I don't see the need on a forum. I will not be going to Donington, I haven't been for the last two years even though it is local for me as I don't like the way Limelight have changed it from the way it used to be. I hope you enjoy the show.

Back to the original question, I beleive there is a problem with the original rear suspension geometry but we have never found the limit yet, If you want to send me your address I will gladly send you a copy of the onboard video of the blade at the last trackday at Aintree (it's too big to send on the net)
Like Hellfire it's never been professionaly setup just very carefully checked and adjusted (corner weights, bumpsteer etc)
Regards
Tony

Bringing this back on topic: supose someone with an old Indy chassis wanted to 'fix' their sus. geometry, what would they need to do?

There is nothing to fix, mine is superb and has been from day 1 she was sva'd in 2002 and drives has good as new to this day and behaves both on the track and road i suggest this post should be deleted cause im gettin cheesed off with it and with some of the unwanted comments now we are all kit car luvers but some on here are just nit pickers

"I have tried to refrain from commenting but when it comes to meeting at shows face to face to debate such matters then i draw the line. I will be at Donington but have no desire to meet such folk or welcome them on to our club pitch whoever they maybe"

just for the record mr indy or as we call him martin keenan does not have anything to do with or build the chassis for the haynes roadster anymore


ps why does it bother you i mean you were quick to jump in at the begining of the thread you made your point weeks ago now it just gets boring

[Edited on 7/3/2007 by DRC INDY 7]

i agree why keep going on about it if the indy isnt perfect then neither are all the indy clones aswell that includes a lot of names as the indy chassis has been cloned to death by many companies in various countries so there all the same so why not go tell some of them ?

also the indy was born out of a modded locost chassis not computer designed it was originaly a live axle then de dion before becomming the indy and if it only has one flaw then hasent it done well

perhaps mk should rename there new model to the mk indy and put the de dion axle back on the existing indy model this then cures any rear irs related problems and would make a superb car as it was originaly like this

mk bike 1






[Edited on 3/7/07 by snoopy]

Snoopy - what you say makes a lot of sense.

Sounds like MK could do with your clarity of thought.... Oooops! (their loss!)

A couple of questions around people's perception of performance:

1. To those who say that they encounter no problems on track, doesn't it frustrate when the Caterham Academy car (for example) in front pulls away in the turns?
   
2. I see that the 4-Age powered Indy performed pretty well in 750MC kits at Pembrey. Does anyone know if he's running a standard rear set-up?
   

Hi Tim

Trouble is how do you compare one car to another, especially with a different person drivingl? maybe the caterham was set up better or had £1500 worth of nitrons on, maybe the driver was better etc etc, so many variables.
When i used to do motorbike Trials
a guy would turn up now and again on an ancient Tiger cub, and beat 95% of the field, many running brand new lightweight bikes 30 years newer (this was 1996)
I'm not saying the flaw's not a problem, and maybe your a good enough driver to appreciate it was holding you back, but i bet for 95% of the people who have one, its not a problem.
I guess the only way to compare is by testing Top Gear style, same driver, same track.
does anyone know the Stig?

Al.









Originally posted by TimC

A couple of questions around people's perception of performance:

1. To those who say that they encounter no problems on track, doesn't it frustrate when the Caterham Academy car (for example) in front pulls away in the turns?
   
2. I see that the 4-Age powered Indy performed pretty well in 750MC kits at Pembrey. Does anyone know if he's running a standard rear set-up?
   

Your argument is of course a perfectly logical one. An Academy car is by it's very nature a basic spec Caterham. That said, they are usually very well set up.

There's no way that I can prove my hypothesis to you but it remains my belief.

I'm going to move on now....

This is all fair enough if you've got one already, but what if your a new builder?
Why would you buy something that has a known flaw in it whether you'd push it that far or not. The fact that the matter seems to get swept under the carpet is alarming. MK seem to be trading on there good reputation (from what I saw at newark). People should be alerted to the indy's flaws and their lack of development. Its a bit like tiger at the moment they are standing still and being overtaken by the competitors such as mac1 and mnr. Its an open market and people shouldn't be swayed and deleting the thread thus preventing ppl from learning of mk's short comings will only serve to support their lack development and wont help anyone in the long run....Oli.

Why would you buy something that has a known flaw in it whether you'd push it that far or not

people still buy mac 1,s luegos derman motorsports cars and many others all with the same flaw as the indy and mk have developed a new chassis which is computer designed and perfect dont think this is standing still doing nothing as said the indy is a compromise from a locost chassis if you want perfection i suggest everyone thinking of building or ordering orders the new chassis

But 2 different mk employees told me on 2 different occassions that the rear suspension was absolultely no different from the old one. In fact they said they only change was of in-board shocks. Now if mk don't know what they've changed what am I as a potential customer supposed to think??
They've been stood still for far too long and now they are racing to catch up. Problem is they're prices now aren't reflecting the competitions. I could pay £500 more and have the most up to date MNR, with no known flaws, impeccable bodywork, a round tube chassis, a build manual thats so good they've copyrighted it and can even upgrade and get a cheap race-leda bolt on kit, oh and its all welded properly with no gaps (so nothing should fall off).....sorry but the indy has obviously had its day. Also what proof have you got that Mac1, mnr and luego copied the indy? Surely MK would protect they're design? Oli.

A few things as I understand it........

The rear suspension on the old indy chassis could do with the upper rear suspension mounts moving a tad, that is if your looking for out and out 11/10ths track performance.
But, the front isn't up to 11/10ths track driving either...........

..................and neither is anyone else's chassis that uses sierra uprights and mushrooms or the like, the front will let you down before the rear when pushed.

The new chassis ? It is 100% different to the old one, the frame the suspension, the only major component the same is the bodywork, I would be interested to know who the two different MK employee's where.

Why do I get the feeling I'm gonna regret posting this ?

Calvinx.. In deed dont talk in such a manner about my beloved car.
So not only do you insult my pride and
joy but your insulting me now "an ostrich
and a numpty"
As i see it you seem to be only on here to
knock and insult MKs. Your jealous at the success and following the Indy has deservedly gained its self.
5yrs trouble free driving my MK & has given
me every confidence in the Indy thats all the
knowledge i need.
"This is a friendly forum lets keep it that way"

perhaps as CaLviNx balls are so big and he and his mate oliwb are obviously chassis and welding experts they should get together and design and construct the perfect flawless chassis i for one would love to see it

or perhaps they could start smaller and say start with a new de dion axle to replace his obviousley flawed broken gts one

heres a suggested design

Image deleted by owner

its an mk one they have never broken or bent and perhaps may improve your rear geometry if you need to look at it in the flesh try nipping to mangogrooveworkshop he owns the one in the picture

[Edited on 5/7/07 by snoopy]

Hi Mark

You obviously have strong opinions about MK and the Indy in particular.
As an owner of one it would help me if you could make your case a bit more clearly so I can assess the likely impact on me.

What I mean is to say what evidence you have, particularly in relation to the rear suspension on the Indy - i.e how many MK owners have notced the problem and what the effect has been.

Have there been more Indys crashed than Mac 1s, MNRs etc.

Are they slower on track days?

If there is some evidence that there is a real problem I might look at converting to a de dion as Snoopy suggests.

I think if you could state your case a bit more dispassionately you might get a better response from other forum members.

Stu

I thought I'd post on here so that CaLviNx could insult me too as I am now feeling a little left out.... said tongue in cheek.

There may well be room for improvement in the MK suspension but it's not dangerous and the car does still handle well even if not perfectly.
It's common for kit companies to trade for a period on their brand, Ultima does the same and hasn't developed its suspension further not because it can't be imporved (probably worse than an Indy) but because it does not need to.

But from where I am it seems they have done a whole new chasis and suspension..... so maybe a little staff training on what to say to punters is needed.

This is a public forum, but there is no need to get personnel by insulting people just because they do not agree with your view point.
Life is too short.

I don’t know about anyone else but I’m Bored (with a capital B) and have been for a while, with the inane rambling of certain members with regard to the rear geometry issues of the Indy. To be fair though, the majority of these people who do the shouting, haven’t actually owned or driven an Indy, let alone had any experience of driving one in anger around a racetrack. They have simply acquired their apparent knowledge from hear-say and visual perception. They aren’t particularly knowledgeable about it and couldn’t tell you exactly what is wrong and how to fix it but somehow feel the need to shout about it loudly as though it’s a major issue, in the hope that some people will take notice and be put off buying the MK Indy chassis.

If you believed half of what they said, you’d expect the Indy to wobble and fall over on every corner of every racetrack in the country but amazingly, for some strange unknown reason it doesn’t. Could it be that it actually isn’t as bad, as some people would have you believe?

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting that the rear geometry on the Indy is perfect by any means. It could and has been improved upon (with the Indy Type R) But let’s face it, how many indy owners have actually noticed it, let alone complained about it, other than to one particular member of this forum? (Allegedly) Maybe it’s because they don’t know any different, or maybe just maybe, they’re happy in the knowledge they can hold their own on track days, against similarly powered vehicles costing in excess of three times as much.

The rear suspension has been modified by MK on their latest chassis, (as stated quite clearly by Mad Dave earlier in this thread) and as such, there are now various MK chassis to choose from including the Indy. However, the choice of MK chassis is ultimately yours although the Indy has and continues to provide extremely good value for money.

So… back to the original question at the start of this thread “ Is this a real problem or just bull as i dont want to (quote) end up in a ditch”

The answer is: If it’s an indy you’re talking about and you intend entering the vehicle in competition it may possibly be a problem. If you intend doing trackdays in the Indy, or it’s the Indy Type R you are talking about, then it’s just bull.

Either way, if you’re unfortunate enough to end up in a ditch, it will more than likely be through your own misfortune. Nothing else.

Phil

Hi,

Been standing on the side lines on this one as well. Well said hellfire, good to see a sensible reply! And for someone that actually drives an indy.

I can't really comment on the question as I have not driven the indy as it is not built and SVAed yet. As said the supposed problem needs to be put into context.. Is it a significant problem? I don't think so, but this is my opinion.

I would like to see the comments from people that have had the geometry fixed and say how important the change actually is... They are best placed to comment.

Also there is nothing such as perfect geometry it is always a compromise...

Cheers

Dan

Blimey what happened while i was away!! I only asked a itty bitty question.. I think its common sense that no kit car chassis is going to be perfect .It does sound like people have exagerated the slight problem and so i think i sould be able to have a blast around a track with some confidence when the time comes.Thanks .

quote:

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Originally posted by jaylatti
Ive recently read in a previous post about a flaw in the design of the mk rear suspension. Is this a real problem or just bull as i dont want to (quote) end up in a ditch . I know the MK has nowhere near the development as a caterham for example ....

[Edited on 2/7/07 by jaylatti]

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quote:

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Originally posted by ASH3
There is nothing to fix, mine is superb and has been from day 1 she was sva'd in 2002 and drives has good as new to this day and behaves both on the track and road i suggest this post should be deleted cause im gettin cheesed off with it and with some of the unwanted comments now we are all kit car luvers but some on here are just nit pickers

"I have tried to refrain from commenting but when it comes to meeting at shows face to face to debate such matters then i draw the line. I will be at Donington but have no desire to meet such folk or welcome them on to our club pitch whoever they maybe"

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The way I see it is that you have to way up all the compromises.
The MK is at face value a good value product. However when you take into consideration that anything you build to a decent standard as an average is going to cost say £8K its not quite such good value as it appears! Take for example the MNR as a comparisson. Here is a kit that is £700 more initiatly. However, its bodywork production is contracted out to specialists who build GRP boats. I can testify first hand to the quality of it. Now consider also that you are getting not a generation 1 or 2 design but more like a constant evolution superbly crafted round tube chassis. I'm sorry but just on the basis of it being a well designed round tube you'd have to be a bit dim not to spend £700 extra on it over the indy.
As to the design flaw I have to admit I have never driven an Indy in anger so wouldn't know. However I have seen the problem with my own eyes. Its obvious if you look underneath and at a rear wheel and get a mate to sit on the back you will see that the camber changes to positive and the rear wheels toe out slightly. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that this means the rear end of the car is steering out of the corner. Which at the very least will lead to a twitchy, very loose back end feel. At the worst a write off in the ditch.
So as many say if you never pushed it on the road in the dry you may never notice. But whats the point of saving £700 now knowing that there is a problem there and getting bodwywork that isn't as well made, a build manual that isn't as good and employees of the company that (apparently) don't even know the chassis has been significantly re-designed! Save your pennies for a couple of months more and look elsewhere.
I'm not saying this as I have something against MK, far from it all the owners I've made have been nice guys. But from my own personal experience of them and looking at the other options especially all in the one place at Newark I would take my money elsewhere. Not just because of the inherent flaw....Oli.

Dear oh Dear.......

This is getting more and more like..

'My toy is better than your toy' .......

A car is as only as good as the builder who builds it......

A kit, of ANY make is only as good as the person who puts the kit together!

A set-up is only as good as the person who sets up the car.......

If, for example a firm called XYZ gives up and someone else takes it over, but still call the firm XYZ, and they produce stuff that maybe isn't up to the quality of the first owner of firm XYZ......it does NOT mean that everything produced, since the firm very first began is rubbish, or, 'wrong'.......

A valid point has been made to a shoddy chassis displayed at a major show....... but that does not mean that every chassis is bad........

It is up to the purchaser to inspect his/her new chassis/kit bits before taking them away, just like any goods you would buy at any shop!!!!!

Its common sense for goodness sakes!

What on earth the poor newbie must be making of us lot with some of what has been said above makes me shudder.

I will take this opportunity to inform those who do NOT yet know....that all Newbies who now sign up to LocostBuilders are warned about 'Flaming' and 'Insults'....

If any of you can't make a valid comment without flaming or insulting an individual.... or, in other words using the English language properly, then please DO NOT reply!

Fozzie

Well said fozzie.

Even though ive been her for a little while now i still havent decided on which kit to go for, was going for the indy but now do i go for the MNR? Reading all these threads is making my head explode!! Having seen all the recent things wrong with these kits im starting to wonder if i really want to build on at all!!

Is there a perfect kit?

Is a cateringvan perfect?

I am sorry that you are having such a bad time making a 'kit' decision Matt

Every manufacturer has their good and bad points, and all I can say to you, is try and see as many finished cars that you can, and talk face to face with the owners....

Perhaps there is a meet of locosters near to you? have a look in 'Clubs and Events' or drop a u2u to someone local to you.

No, in my personal opinion, there is no such 'perfect kit', we all have our own ideas and aspirations, and our own level of skills, do plenty of research, ask lots of questions..

Cateringvan perfect? nope...NOT in my personal opinion ...... .....Its in the eye of the beholder......

There is a Cateringvan just about 100 yards from me, that has, I would guess, been built in 'kit form' ....and errrr not very well ....

Try and get to some shows too if you can, bear in mind the pros and cons that you have gained from your own research, and make your own choice...

HTH Fozzie

quote:

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Is there a perfect kit?

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quote:

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Originally posted by omega 24 v6

quote:

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Is there a perfect kit?

---

Yes there is it's a scratch build with no one to argue with but yourself.

You make your own choices, right or wrong, and live with them, untill you decide they ARE wrong and change your plans AGAIN.
All that said If I was doing it again I'd consider the opinions based on what I saw/discussed with manufacturers at the time. Quality is IMHO usually easy to spot.

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quote:

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As to the design flaw I have to admit I have never driven an Indy in anger so wouldn't know. However I have seen the problem with my own eyes. Its obvious if you look underneath and at a rear wheel and get a mate to sit on the back you will see that the camber changes to positive and the rear wheels toe out slightly. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that this means the rear end of the car is steering out of the corner. Which at the very least will lead to a twitchy, very loose back end feel. At the worst a write off in the ditch.

---

I agree its all very subjective. What we really need is someone who's had the MK engineering treatment to come forwards and comment on it......

Also Fozzie, I have to disagree with you. Whilst I agree the finish of a car is entirely down to the builder you are restricted to the confines of the product itself unless you are going to change that (in which case you might as well scratch build!) For example there is no way a really well built Tiger CAT would outperform an equally well built Luego. This is purely down to the weight issue and the fact that the CAT utilises the whole rear subframe. Whilst what we are talking about is on a smaller scale it still holds true. ie a well built new indy is going to be better in this respect to a well built old indy. As (hopefully) this flaw has indeed been looked at despite what employees stated. All this of course doesn't take into consideration at all the varying degree's of quality. If that has gone down hill then the chassis may snap before you discover the faults with the back end!
My point is purely that whilst the indy may have been a great value product a few years ago it has lost its title to the likes of MNR and alike. Who's product is of a better quality and more refined. So newbie, whether the indy has a flaw or not you would IMHO be better spending an extra £700 on the round tube high quality chassis and bodywork from MNR rather than MK. If enough people do this MK will be forced to react and refine their product further. When they do then maybe then they can justify the expense of the kit. But I'm affraid right now there are too many problems with it for the cost. Oli.

Excellent points Ollie...

I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head.......

Champagne taste for lemonade prices.....an old saying, which really means ..

'Ya pays ya money, ya take ya choice'.......
It does depend on the prospective buyers budget, and ability....... you get what you pay for........

As far as performance goes, I was only talking about the actual car.....not what goes under the bonnet.....

I, myself, have seen over the last 6 years many different kits made by all of the 'usual' manufacturers, major improvements over the years from some, and decline perhaps, from others......

I still favour my 'book' chassis (locost, as opposed to the slightly larger sierra type).... but that is my choice and not everyones 'cup of tea'.

If the OP's question was 'budget not a problem.....which kit manufacturer is best, especially for a one-stop shop, and customer service first class?'.......then IMHO, there would be only one answer.... ....but that wasn't the question......

As you say, the answers do really lay with MK..... AFAIK MK Engineering produced the locost chassis for a while, and went to the Indy sometime in 2002 and stopped producing the locost chassis.
I think MK Sportscars came to be sometime in 2003?.......and at some point I believe they started producing the locost chassis again as well as the Indy ..... this is only from my memory.......so could be slightly 'out'.....

Fozzie

But what I dont understand is..........

The new indy does not have this "flaw" so what the eck are you all going on about, and as to things "snapping" in half the only pics I have seen of something "snapped" in half on here wasnt anything to do with MK.

"its down to MK to respond" they have new chassis ??

quote:

---

Originally posted by CaLviNx
Well what alternative but to reply is there ? when there is thinly veiled comments made.....

So did you get home ok after your issue at Newark then ??

[Edited on 7/7/07 by CaLviNx]

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quote:

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Originally posted by CaLviNx

quote:

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Originally posted by Jon Ison
But what I dont understand is..........

The new indy does not have this "flaw" so what the eck are you all going on about, and as to things "snapping" in half the only pics I have seen of something "snapped" in half on here wasnt anything to do with MK.

"its down to MK to respond" they have new chassis ??

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As for the new chassis having No flaws !!! huh !! where have you been for the last few weeks ??,if you look at recent pictures of the "new" MK chassis that MK themselves presented etc etc.....

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hmmm, that sounds like the start of round two. Perhaps we should all pause for breath, toilet break, get more drinks in ........... or even just lay it to rest.

The summary is ........
The indy has a geometry fault that most people believe is minor and whilst you won't win the F1 GP in an indy, you're going to be ok on all roads in the uk (unless of course you're advocating breaking the law and driving in a manner that is dangerous - at which point I don't care what car you're in, i have no sympathy for you anyway as i could be coming the other way). If you're after 10/10ths on the race track you may wish to consider other more expensive cars - which also won't be 100% perfect but lots of people think may be better.

What ever you do, before you buy, take a drive in a number of cars, talk to the owners and make your own mind up.

Right, done, can me move on?

Trust me you DONT want me to reveal who actually made the part that snapped on my car, you think there is enough of an uproar about the topic contained herein, so please don't hint at pushing that angle.

oh yes we do in the intrest of public safety unless you dont have the balls to say as i know it wasnt mk engineering or mk sportscars as theres are both bent tubes and would never ever manufacture for gts

this is potentialy a killer flaw not just a bit of bad geometry this may actually kill someone if there going fast yet you chose to leave all gts owners in the dark that to me is pure SELFISH GROW UP

[Edited on 7/7/07 by snoopy]

quote:

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Trust me you DONT want me to reveal who actually made the part that snapped on my car, you think there is enough of an uproar about the topic contained herein, so please don't hint at pushing that angle.

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quote:

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Originally posted by whitestu

quote:

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Trust me you DONT want me to reveal who actually made the part that snapped on my car, you think there is enough of an uproar about the topic contained herein, so please don't hint at pushing that angle.

---

Not saying who made your axle does does make it look like you just want to have a go at MK.

Stu

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This is funny really. Go and visit the makers, choose the car and most important build it and enjoy it. Dont worry about being 100% perfect because it wont be, no "7" will ever! It will be windy and crap in the wet...but great fun and that's what this forum should be about...not slagging people and products off. The Indy is easy to build and I've never had an issue with the car...I'm pretty sure the engine/tyres/wheels have a far greater effect on the car than what's being discussed here.

All kit makers have their faults as they dont have the resource to be perfect...but then what about the major car builders, they still make big drop off's but we still buy from them. So just get in the garage and build the car you like and stop with the "Top Trumps" my car is better than yours stuff.

I went out in my Indy yesterday and lived to tell the tale

1) Personally I don't give a toss who made the axle, don't need to know, don't want to know, and search as hard as you like its the 1st time you will see "your axle" in any of my posts.

2) Not once have I said there is not a "flaw" as you care to put it.

3)

Q....How much do the upper brackets need moving to gain better control of the rear end ?

(Are everyone else's chassis within these ultimate tolerances, why is it written into stock hatch regulations for example that suspension pick up points cannot be moved ? Surely the likes of Ford, Citroen, Peugeot etc got it so right no competitor would ever think of moving a suspension pick up point to improve things ?)

A....Less than the manufacturing tolerances of a production car chassis.

Why do Ford and the like jig chassis when preparing a race/rally car ?

Must be some guys on here who after an accident have had there road car jigged and though, "Christ" this feels much better.........

so just to satisfy someone who puts the words "grand finale" in a thread title... bares his arse for some sort of diverse fetish photographic reason and consistently posts "see you in a ditch"

The old indy can be improved upon as can the new one, every other kit car on the market as perfect set up with no faults whatsoever.......not. Draw your own conclusions.

And finally, I don't want a toe to toe at Donington, I stopped them games over 40 years ago, just after my 1st year at nursery. Having said that at times I think I'm back there.

Just a thought.........

Maybe worth asking the likes of Jensen or Lewis if their chassis can be improved upon from its original design.

i would like to know what if anything he can achive from a 1 man hate campagne school bully comes into mind maybe jelousy or something like this here
may have something to do with it



garbi1


52


dd


garb2



4 gif

srtangley enough contary to popular belief non of them ended up in a ditch



[Edited on 8/7/07 by snoopy]

and strangley enough an experianced kit builder driver and journalist who has built many many cars also failed to notice this flaw and also avoided ending up in a ditch when he wrote this

Ok, hopefully the last post from me.....and interestingly nothing to do with the indy. So a bit pointless really but its bugging me:

1- Go and read a book on welding. If you know anything about it you will understand that a properly welded join is stronger than the parent metal around it! It was not the proper join on Marks de-dion that snapped. Go and have another look at the photo's if you don't believe me. It was a badly welded hidden join that let go. This would not have happened if it had been welded properly as it should have been just the once. Those of you who don't believe this better get some night classes in welding before you contemplate trusting your own. I for one wont be getting into your scratch built cars - that is if you could build one.....

2- That article was written in a magazine who's sole sponsors are the kit car industry. Funnily enough MK are a very big player in the industry (rightly or wrongly) and again funnily enough they advertise a lot. And to indirectly quote one of the editors (posted on the tiger forum) they cannot afford to slate any manufacturers as the advertising revenue would put them out of business. So unless its an independent article I don't want to hear it....

Oli.

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Originally posted by Jon Ison

so just to satisfy someone who puts the words "grand finale" in a thread title... bares his arse for some sort of diverse fetish photographic reason and consistently posts "see you in a ditch"

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I for one wont be getting into your scratch built cars

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Garry what did I say at Newark to everyone, about how easy it would be to wind the usual suspects up, looks like I was right then.......

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