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safety warning

timf - 19/4/04 at 10:03 PM

decided to move a couple of power sockets in the garage tonight and in doing so had to move the small 2.5kg fire extingisher i have on the wall. as i removed it from its bracket it felt a bit light so i checke the guage. It was completely empty.

when was the last time you checked yours.

carcentric - 19/4/04 at 10:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by timf
. . . It was completely empty. . . .

Had you used it up,
or did it have a leak?

thekafer - 19/4/04 at 11:15 PM

02/13/04.

timf - 20/4/04 at 07:25 AM

it must of leaked

quote:
Originally posted by carcentric

quote:
Originally posted by timf
. . . It was completely empty. . . .

Had you used it up,
or did it have a leak?

David Jenkins - 20/4/04 at 08:03 AM

Probably worth replacing it with one that has a gauge... mine has a little dial with a green bit in the middle, showing that it's full and ready.

David

stephen_gusterson - 20/4/04 at 08:31 AM

I have a 2 quid watering can full or water. You can see its full, and know its conna work, and its locost.

Its also easy and cheap to recharge, using a device I have in my kitchen with a product supplied at very low cost by anglian water.

atb

steve

Mk-Ninja - 20/4/04 at 08:42 AM

quote:

I have a 2 quid watering can full or water. You can see its full, and know its conna work, and its locost.

Itll also make your roses grow

David Jenkins - 20/4/04 at 09:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
I have a 2 quid watering can full or water. You can see its full, and know its conna work, and its locost.

Its also easy and cheap to recharge, using a device I have in my kitchen with a product supplied at very low cost by anglian water.

atb

steve

And it's REALLY exciting when you try to put out a petrol fire

timf - 20/4/04 at 09:15 AM

quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins

quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
I have a 2 quid watering can full or water. You can see its full, and know its conna work, and its locost.

Its also easy and cheap to recharge, using a device I have in my kitchen with a product supplied at very low cost by anglian water.

atb

steve

And it's REALLY exciting when you try to put out a petrol fire

or if theres electricery near the fire

bth it's got a guage i could see it from the angle it was mounted on the wall

stephen_gusterson - 20/4/04 at 10:48 AM

If I had a petrol fire I would be outa there anyway. The car has a fairly full fuel tank to check for leaks - im not waiting for 6 galls to go up.

If its a small underbonnet one I dont see how a bit of water would cause it to flare up. Now, oil, thats different.

The 'only things' i have set alight are my clothes (grinder sparks) or debris on the floor - or which there can be quite a lot in a confined garage where you are making fibreglass moulds and working with wood.

An electrical fire on the car would be fine with water, and as I have an isolator in the garage that powers the whole place down, I can safely use water.

atb

steve

[Edited on 20/4/04 by stephen_gusterson]

David Jenkins - 20/4/04 at 11:23 AM

If the tank caught fire I'd be legging it as well. However, I'd want to be in a position to put out a carb fire before it got serious... and you'd be amazed how a small quantity of burning petrol can be spread around by a bit of water.

Also, I wouldn't want to be pouring water over the air intake of a running engine...

David

Spyderman - 20/4/04 at 11:53 AM

I usually keep one of those cheap houshold plant sprayers nearby.
The things you can buy from Wilkinsons for about a quid!
They put out a fine mist of water and are usually more effective at putting out small fires.
Less likely to cause damage as well!

Terry

craig1410 - 20/4/04 at 11:54 AM

I remember a little while ago after working on my fuel injection system on my Rover Vitesse, I took the car for a test drive and being safety conscious I took the CO2 extinguisher with me. Unfortunately I had left it sitting up on the back seat and the first time I hit the brakes it fell forward and got jammed against the back of my seat and started to discharge itself. I have to say that with the noise and CO2 smoke I nearly discharged MYSELF!! It frightened the $h1t out of me! It was especially bad because I was listening carefully for any sounds from the engine which may have indicated a problem with the work I had done...

So to answer your question, I know my extinguisher IS empty I have another one though and all you need to do is weigh it to see if it is full.

Cheers,
Craig.

stephen_gusterson - 20/4/04 at 12:41 PM

I have only had one car fire. It was a 5 year old mk2 cavalier. It flooded with petrol. So I took out the plugs, and span the engine over to clear the bores.

A spark reached the sprayed out petrol, and the whole bonnet went up in a flash of flames. Raced into the garage for an extinguisher (had one then!) and when I came out, the fire had gone.

Shame really - I needed a new company car and the mean gits wouldnt buy one at that time

atb

steve

craig1410 - 20/4/04 at 01:20 PM

Steve,
Funnily enough I had a Cavalier 1.6GL which went up in flames with me too... It was an "X" reg I think which I think is MK2?

Anyway, it was the alternator cable which chaffed through on the engine block and set light to some oily deposits down the back of the engine. This then melted the carb float chamber which spilled its guts.

I was at Uni at the time and was in a phone box talking to my Girlfriend (now Wife) when I noticed the big sparks coming out from under the wheel arch. I calmly told here I'd call her back because my car was on fire and then jumped out of the phone box to tackle the blaze. Fortunately I had a leaking radiator and had two gallon containers of water in the boot. It took every last drop of water to put the fire out and at one point I thought I was going to have to pi$$ on it as well to put out the last of the flames!!

Anyway, I saved the old girl and rebuilt it. Good car, nice revvy engine.

Cheers,
Craig.

stephen_gusterson - 20/4/04 at 02:50 PM

that sounds like a pretty comprehensive fire!

The one I had was summat like F reg - its the boxy one like a giant Nova. I would call yours a mk3. I had one of those 'between company cars' for a couple months with the 2.5 V6 in it. Great car for performance - just so ordinary otherwise.....

but I ended up getting a rover 600, which wasnt exactly anything to shout about!

atb

steve

steve m - 20/4/04 at 03:16 PM

Steve

Dont tell me u dont like Rover's ?

craig1410 - 20/4/04 at 04:22 PM

Steve,
When I said mine was an "X" reg I mean't the OLD "X" reg... Mine was the one after they started using front wheel drive because the original Cavalier was rear wheel drive.

Yes the fire was a bit scary at one point, especially when I lifted the bonnet... My eyebrows are just about back to normal 10 years later... By the way, I know that lifting the bonnet was a bad idea but you just try standing there watching your car burn when you have 10 litres of water in your hands...
Cheers,
Craig.

Mark Allanson - 20/4/04 at 07:16 PM

When doing MOT welding, I used to have a plant sprayer thingy bottle, one squirt will put out even the largest underseal fire. If used in earnest, it is still amazing what it will put out (I would not use it as the only extinguisher though). Steve Gustywotsits watering can with the rose attacked is a damn good alternative

stephen_gusterson - 20/4/04 at 09:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Steve

Dont tell me u dont like Rover's ?

nooooo - I didnt say I didnt like rovers per se - just 10 year old out of date cars

I have owned quite a few - inc a montego, 800 and a 600 as company cars. Thats not counting the two metros, austin princess and Ambasssador, sprint and maestro.

There are cars in that list that many would consider totally naff - but I bought em cos they were british.

No point in being patriotic and driving crap tho is there?

You are confusing my point that the K series may not be the technological marvel Rover originally thought it was.

The 600 is a decent car - nice inside, but the handling is a bit naff (understeers) and mine was a 4 speed 2.0 auto. If you wanted to overtake between 35 and 50, forget it. There wasnt a gear to suit in that rev range.

but as a comparison, what would you have :

1. 2 litre 125 hp auto, 10.5 secs and 120mph

2. 2.5 litre v6, 170hp 7.5 secs, 145mph

I thought the rover had more image. Well, compared to a vauxhall.......

[Edited on 20/4/04 by stephen_gusterson]

steve m - 21/4/04 at 04:50 PM

Steve
I have to disagree with your comments about rover

A few reasons

on this site their have been a couple of ocassions were our fellow locosters have had their cars/pride and joys and exotic road cars, vanadalised and /or pinched
I have had damage done to a couple of my cars in the past (marcus 3iltre, lotus elan,) but never to my rovers

my next door neighbour over the last 3 years has had one escort pinched off his drive, and one golf broken into
I dont even lock my 45 sometimes !!

rovers may be boring and un exciting, they are not the quickest car in the world, but the are very comfortable, and my 45 does 45 mpg on a good run, and thats with the aircon on,

I have also had loads of cars over the years ranging from e-type, lotus, sierra etc , yet none of those cars gave me comfort, reliabilty, and hassle free motoring
My insurance on the 45 is �212 fully comp, so I dont have to waste money insuring an "excotic" , and as for 0-60 times etc I could not give a stuff about them in a road going family car, that is what the locost is for "fun factor"
so I believe that I have the best of both worlds, a practicle family car and a sports car,
just my view and we are all entitled to that!!!

regards

steve

Noodle - 21/4/04 at 07:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by thekafer
02/13/04.

Blimey. You Yanks have 13 months in a year! Bigger is better eh?

Cheers,

Neil.

stephen_gusterson - 21/4/04 at 09:25 PM

I think you misunderstand my point.

I was annoyed when the government sold rover to brit aerospace, after all the money we as a nation put into it. Its basically the brit car industry in a merged state.

Then brit aerospace sold out to the germans. bastards. There went all the investment to a foriegn company.

Then we got it back. What did we get?

A company that will struggle to survive. Its a bit like Talbot - a stop gap effort at selling old cars (which was what Talbot was - old Rootes / crysler designs).

Your 45 is basically a honda.

All of the models - cept 75 - are long in the tooth. The only new model is a rebadged indian car.

This isnt a company showing much of a future.

So, if you coulkd chose on a company car list between such as BMW, rover, saab, mercedes, toyota, whatever, would you really choose a rover - well you have. And 5 years ago I was trying to get my wife to by a 400 / 45 over the megane she wanted.

I wouldnt do that now - things have moved on and rover have not. Buying rover in the future is likely to be jobs for bangalore, not west midlands,

Rover, some time ago, was the poor mans rolls-royce. They turned austin-morris into rover for the kudos. Instead of gaining kudos, they have just turned a once great marque into a badge engineering company.

its sad. In fact bloody annoying.

atb

steve

quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Steve
I have to disagree with your comments about rover

A few reasons

on this site their have been a couple of ocassions were our fellow locosters have had their cars/pride and joys and exotic road cars, vanadalised and /or pinched
I have had damage done to a couple of my cars in the past (marcus 3iltre, lotus elan,) but never to my rovers

my next door neighbour over the last 3 years has had one escort pinched off his drive, and one golf broken into
I dont even lock my 45 sometimes !!

rovers may be boring and un exciting, they are not the quickest car in the world, but the are very comfortable, and my 45 does 45 mpg on a good run, and thats with the aircon on,

I have also had loads of cars over the years ranging from e-type, lotus, sierra etc , yet none of those cars gave me comfort, reliabilty, and hassle free motoring
My insurance on the 45 is �212 fully comp, so I dont have to waste money insuring an "excotic" , and as for 0-60 times etc I could not give a stuff about them in a road going family car, that is what the locost is for "fun factor"
so I believe that I have the best of both worlds, a practicle family car and a sports car,
just my view and we are all entitled to that!!!

regards

steve

[Edited on 21/4/04 by stephen_gusterson]

rizla - 21/4/04 at 09:34 PM

of course rover wont survive they cant build cars and thier after sales is rubbish just look at all the probs the mgf has had ie head gaskets,master cylinder failures,wiring burn outs etc and these are the ones the public know about,i know of many more on the 75 and the zr

flak monkey - 21/4/04 at 09:40 PM

quote:
its sad. In fact bloody annoying

I totally agree. I hate to see the British lose manufacturing or anything to other countries. Just because its cheaper doesnt satisfy me.

I cant disagree with Rizla, i know the cars have had problems, but look at the shyte support the company has been given the past few years. But i can say that we have always had rovers/austin cars and none of them have been any trouble at all. Apart from stupid things going wrong, but nothing major. And of all the people i know with rovers not one has had a head gasket blow. That rover engine is basically a honda engine anyway.....!!

Cheers
David

stephen_gusterson - 21/4/04 at 09:41 PM

but rover dont have gasket failures any more than other cars

atb

steve

quote:
Originally posted by rizla
of course rover wont survive they cant build cars and thier after sales is rubbish just look at all the probs the mgf has had ie head gaskets,master cylinder failures,wiring burn outs etc and these are the ones the public know about,i know of many more on the 75 and the zr

flak monkey - 21/4/04 at 09:45 PM

Exactly...

NS Dev - 21/4/04 at 10:16 PM

I am not a fan of Rover and probably will never be (but I'm still open to the idea!!)

HOWEVER, the rover K-series engine, for all it's headgasket teething problems, is an excellent design of engine, that until recently was well ahead of most of the competition. It was very light, and extremely tuneable. Let us not forget the really high powered ones around in caterhams etc. Not all megabuck cheque book engineered engines but a good few self-tuned ones by people like Dave Andrews! I think I remember reading about somebody called Carmichael, with a 240+hp? 1.8 k-series (naturally aspirated) in a caterham or westfield. Not crap engineering in anybody's book!

As I said, I am not a Rover fan, but their engine development must rate among the best of recent times (let us not forget the excellent KV6, which we will soon be seeing much more of in competition)

Ferg - 23/4/04 at 06:19 PM

quote:
That rover engine is basically a honda engine anyway.....!!

Is it???????????
In what regard?

stephen_gusterson - 23/4/04 at 06:46 PM

The K is a british design - the 1.6 used to at one time be honda, as was the 2 litre in the 600

atb

steve

Bigfoot - 24/4/04 at 10:11 AM

Gusterthingy is quite right, Rover have been using Honda running gear for while now, surely you must have noticed that they didn't leak oil anymore.

Ferg - 24/4/04 at 10:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Bigfoot
Gusterthingy is quite right, Rover have been using Honda running gear for while now, surely you must have noticed that they didn't leak oil anymore.

Er....the 'k' series has nothing to do with Honda.

flak monkey - 24/4/04 at 10:42 AM

From what i understood the K-series was based closely on the honda touring car engines. Although it was british designed and built, the honda design had quite a bit of influence over it.

I stand to be corrected...

Cheers
David

rizla - 24/4/04 at 05:14 PM

the k series is/was british made and desighned that is why it is so bad,heres a thought land rover have admited that the reguler head gasket failur is a warrenty issue and replace the complete engine for a k2 series,but rover wont even admit theres a problem so they say you pay for it,yet both use exactly the same engine

oh and the k2 series is basicly the same exept it has a re-desighned block to prevent the gasket from failing,there is no other permanent cure,if there was landrover would do it

Ferg - 24/4/04 at 06:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rizla
The k series is/was british made and desighned that is why it is so bad.

Hello, good evening and welcome to 'The Sweeping Generalisation Show'..............

Having spoken to various people about Rover HGF it goes something like this......

Failure is no more common first go than any other manufacturer.........

Once failed, however, if the leak isn't spotted quickly the head distorts and occassionally the block, due to the rather thin castings and low water content of the block.

HGF is particularly bad on mid-engined variants as the thermostat is effectively in the 'bottom hose' or return position so as soon as the stat opens (using the bypass through the heater matrix to heat it) it receives cold water from the rad and shuts very quickly. This repeats until warm subjecting the bead and block to rapid expansion and contraction, not good for the silicone rubber gaskets which seal the waterways.
This is why Elise owners and I believe the factory (MGFs) are fitting remote thermostats to the 'top hose' position.

If the head warps it's generally scrap.

Second gasket failures are the thing that has given the engine a bad name.

Not my experience I'll admit, but a precis from a selection of engine remanufacturers and tuners.

Briefly, Rover built an engine that was really TOO light........ good effort, any other company would have spent on development, Rover couldn't afford it.

The k-series was hit by lack of investment in it's development, not it's bad design....who was in charge at that critical time????