Sounds like a bike engine to me
EXcept they don't make 'em 2L big!!
How's about a Mitsi FTO. 2L (v6 so not 16v) but 196Bhp stock BHP... but it's FWD so would need some moding....
As in the title, I'm looking at a transplant for my race car to achieve approx 200bhp (flywheel). Some simple rules, no turbos, superchargers, maximum capacity for 16v motors is 2.0 and it must mate to a rwd box fairly easily!! Now I know nothing is going to be dirt cheap but how would you recommend getting there on a budget ??
Vauxhall 2.0 XE or Duratec. Or a wild card - S2000?
Ouch!! 100Bhp/litre NA.....
Sounds like a bike engine to me
EXcept they don't make 'em 2L big!!
How's about a Mitsi FTO. 2L (v6 so not 16v) but 196Bhp stock BHP... but it's FWD so would need some moding....
start with a good base
16v 2.0 engines, you have vauxhall c20xe, 150bhp as standard, the bottom end's good for over 200bhp, and can be done with some decent intake and
exhaust, and maybe new cam shafts. easily mated to a type 9 (how long will a standard type 9 last with 200bhp? i don't know)
the racing pickups (like mine, but racing ones) get 229bhp from a c20xe with a complete stock bottom end
vauxhall ecotec, as above, but might involve a bit more work
duratec i think will get you 200bhp almost out the box, but again small amount of work needed.
zetec should be easily done too
all to type 9 boxes are quite easy, and been done a lot on here
[Edited on 30/4/09 by blakep82]
Only issue with a type 9 would be whether it would take the power. I've heard a 180Bhp upper limit though of course in reality it's torque
that kills boxes....
why they can make them out of cheese in our BECs.....
In my head i'd got 150bhp as the reliable number .... although that might be with a heavier car.
The zetec starts to get expensive to get to 200bhp, the easy engine is the vauxhall redtop (cx-whatever listed above).
Suppose the question is - how much you got to spend, how much hassle do you want, how much space have you got, how much of an issue is weight?
try ford boa or bob
2.9 v6 200+ out the box can be had in donors as cheap as 200
the racing trucks use the 4 speed rocket box with 230bhp, not sure if they're any stonger as standard, but they're the same length and bolt patterns. they might be quaife boxes though
XE, Duratec
For a full 200bhp, a zetec won't be a cheap option...
What about an Alfa 2l JTS unit? 16v, 160-ish BHP, but 152ft lb of torque and weighs 168 kg.
You just need a wrecked 156, GT, GTV or Spider from which to retrieve it!
[Edited on 30/4/09 by mediabloke]
hi i must be doing something wrong as ive got a c20xe with gsxr throttle boddies and a mbe ecu ,four branch exhaust took it to nms for rolling road and only came away with 167 bhp real disapointed was expecting 175/180 bhp
quote:
Originally posted by donn006
hi i must be doing something wrong as ive got a c20xe with gsxr throttle boddies and a mbe ecu ,four branch exhaust took it to nms for rolling road and only came away with 167 bhp real disapointed was expecting 175/180 bhp
I reckon that if you want 200hp now, start with a engine that produces 200hp out of the box, that'l give you room to move later on when you need
more speed, also makes it really reliable!!
My choices would be
250hp: F20C (Honda s2000) with matching gearbox.
210hp: Beams 3sge (Toyota Altezza/Lexus IS) with matching 6speed box too and also fits to toyota w5* series box
I know a guy in Aussie who is making about 300hp from the beams engine, still NA so plenty of improvement available.
Cheers
Aaron
PS NA horse power never comes cheap...
quote:
Originally posted by grassracer
maximum capacity for 16v motors is 2.0 and it must mate to a rwd box fairly easily!!
Very true Aaron, but a 'cheap' blown set-up will always cost more in the long term after things start to melt or break!
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Sounds like a bike engine to me
EXcept they don't make 'em 2L big!!
Have you seen the weight / power figures of the Rocket though? Bit dissapointing.
eh? cheapest has to be oRver V8.
Duratec 
Pretty much 200bhp out of the box once fitted with throttle bodies, free flowing exhaust and a decent engine management system. Needs an adapter
bellhousing to mate to a type 9, and would seriously suggest you invest in a HD one.
240bhp easily achievable with a different set of cams couldpled with the above. Once the cost of the initial install is over they are pretty cheap to
squeeze a lot of power out of.
David
Agree you will need £450 for cams to get 200, but the big advantage is they are very cheap to buy, even new, so no need to buy a knackered unit which will cost £££ to rebuild.
Thanks guys...good healthy debate going here. I like the sound of the Duratec or the Beams Toyota thingy. Zetec and XE have been done to death in the class its going in so was looking for some alternatives!! thanks keep em coming though
quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
eh? cheapest has to be oRver V8.
Just one slight problem....... there isnt a 2L version available
Mondeo St200 2.5 V6.
202bhp as standard with all the restrictive ford stuff on it. Less than £500 delivered to your door.
Bargain.
<-------------- I've got one.
quote:
Originally posted by grazzledazzle
Mondeo St200 2.5 V6.
202bhp as standard with all the restrictive ford stuff on it.
Nissan SR20?
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by grazzledazzle
Mondeo St200 2.5 V6.
202bhp as standard with all the restrictive ford stuff on it.
So a 2.5 l engine is less than 2.0 l then?
I made that mistake too.
231 version of the RX8. Tiny motor and the 6-speed gearbox will fit most 7's.
You can normally haggle breakers down to the £1500-£2000 mark for engine, box and ancillaries.
Only problem is the Oil Metering Pump. The Mazda ECU controls it, but you will have to junk the Mazda ECU to get the engine to run outside of its
normal application.
When I last looked (about 18 months ago), there were no aftermarket ECU's that could support a rising-rate OMP.
There were a few plane-engine builders using the RX8 and they had made OMP's, but I never fully explored that option.
The other solution is to just pre-mix your fuel with some oil... bit of a PITA though!
SBD do some awesome engines
SBD
To me the obvious choice is the Honda K20A which is 197BHP in production format. Easy gains just from induction and exhaust mods. Probably the most
reliable of all the engines mentioned so far surely?
Cost depends on how much you will be fabricating and how good you are with modern wiring/electronics I suppose.
quote:
Originally posted by grazzledazzle
No, i'm, just ignoring that restriction as it seems the limiting factor on a budget.
Can't believe nobody has asked you what your budget is yet. The answer to this question will determine which engine options are available.
So...... what's your budget?
Phil
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
231 version of the RX8. Tiny motor and the 6-speed gearbox will fit most 7's.
quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
Can't believe nobody has asked you what your budget is yet. The answer to this question will determine which engine options are available.
So...... what's your budget?
Phil
quote:
Originally posted by Hector.Brocklebank
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Sounds like a bike engine to me
EXcept they don't make 'em 2L big!!
erm.... 2300cc engined PRODUCTION motorcycle
[Edited on 1/5/09 by Hector.Brocklebank]
Budget is £1000-£1500ish, flexible if the right package was available!! Over 2.0 is allowable but must be 2 valves per cylinder sorry I didn't make that very clear
surely it can't be that hard to get 200bhp out of a Rover V8???
quote:
Originally posted by grassracer
Budget is £1000-£1500ish, flexible if the right package was available!! Over 2.0 is allowable but must be 2 valves per cylinder sorry I didn't make that very clear
quote:
Originally posted by Hector.Brocklebank
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Sounds like a bike engine to me
EXcept they don't make 'em 2L big!!
erm.... 2300cc engined PRODUCTION motorcycle
[Edited on 1/5/09 by Hector.Brocklebank]
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Except the full quote was
"Ouch!! 100Bhp/litre NA.....
Sounds like a bike engine to me
EXcept they don't make 'em 2L big!! "
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Have you seen the weight / power figures of the Rocket though? Bit dissapointing.
quote:
Originally posted by Hector.Brocklebank
have a look at this version in no way standard, but shows what can be done with this engine, has been heavily modified for more power too
Roger Allmond's Triumph Rocket III special
quote:
Originally posted by grassracer
Budget is £1000-£1500ish, flexible if the right package was available!! Over 2.0 is allowable but must be 2 valves per cylinder sorry I didn't make that very clear
quote:
Originally posted by Hector.Brocklebank
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Have you seen the weight / power figures of the Rocket though? Bit dissapointing.
have a look at this version in no way standard, but shows what can be done with this engine, has been heavily modified for more power too
Roger Allmond's Triumph Rocket III special
One good thing about engines that have been "done to death" - so has all the costly development and mistakes!
duratec 2000cc is good for 200 brake with cam and throttle bodies with a 6500 rpm red line but judging by my mates experience i wouldn t strip the engine unless you really know what your doing!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
the racing trucks use the 4 speed rocket box with 230bhp, not sure if they're any stonger as standard, but they're the same length and bolt patterns. they might be quaife boxes though
turbo pinto,std pinto second hand turbo all the bits 600quid ,you can run 12psi boost that means 200bhp ,you can get more but you might do a pisto or
two,thay have been known to handle 18psi ,"by the way this is on std internals"
turbo pinto power
ps look at tourbosport furom,look in pinto xflow bda
just read your post no turbos doh,
red top my mates got one in his super stock!had it on the rollers today 212bhp@the fly175 @wheels
[Edited on 1/5/09 by jpindy3]
quote:
Originally posted by jpindy3
turbo pinto,std pinto second hand turbo all the bits 600quid ,you can run 12psi boost that means 200bhp ,you can get more but you might do a pisto or two,thay have been known to handle 18psi ,"by the way this is on std internals"
turbo pinto power
ps look at tourbosport furom,look in pinto xflow bda
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
quote:
Originally posted by jpindy3
turbo pinto,std pinto second hand turbo all the bits 600quid ,you can run 12psi boost that means 200bhp ,you can get more but you might do a pisto or two,thay have been known to handle 18psi ,"by the way this is on std internals"
turbo pinto power
ps look at tourbosport furom,look in pinto xflow bda
They'll handle that for a few miles, but not for long. Reliably the max is 8psi on stock internals. Forged low comp pistons would let you run 18-20 reliably.
I run a 13b bridgeport rotary engine in my westy(well I will when its finished) Butbthe engine cme from my 1st gen RX7. Its N/A and has about 230
bhp.
The rotary equivilance for sprints and hillclimbs is 1.5 sooooooooo 1308ccx1.5=1962cc ish Now lets not get into any argumants etc about swept volume
blah blah blah but I have been very succesfull with the old rx over the past 3-4 years that the desision was taken to do this as I wanted to beat all
of the piston powered 7s not just a few of the..sorry I digress
Pics
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t21/kiwimazda/IMG_2099.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t21/kiwimazda/IMG_2098.jpg
Don't know why you don't go turbo, 200bhp any other way is gonna cost you thousands, that would be straight out of the box for an £800
SR20DET engine, and even the cheapest mods would get that to 250bhp for about £400.....
Mine will be around 280-300bhp for about £2k total ...
Are you searching for 200bhp, or an engine with a suitable torque figure that matches a 200bhp output?
Wildcard - I think the last of the Alfa twin cam 8v 2.0 engines (155?) gave about 160bhp - and I think a 16v would make 200bhp quite easily.
A RWD box might me tricky to find - unless you throw half that budget at an MT75c box and bellhousing..
The only non-Honda engine making around 100bhp/ton is the original BMW M3 (E30) lump...you might get one of those for your budget...
Real odd-ball idea - Peugeot/Citroen Mi16V lump? They'll do 190bhp with a cam change.
Is variable valve timing allowed? The later Alfa lump are twin VVT
You can make a lot of engines produce 200bhp, but its whether or not you want a decent torque spread or not.
All the engines I can think of are going through my head - and your budget goes out of the window when you hit about 180bhp..
Really daft idea (but has been done) - what about 2x 1000cc bike engines together? Got room for a straight eight?
Yep tend to agree budget is probably more of an issue than whats out there...all the options are there but like you say budget expires just short!!
Might have save up a bit more
here we go .
VOLVO 5 CYL .
2 litre 20v
pick em up for peanuts , cost is engine management/bellhousing .
valvetrain good for 7500 rpm .
from 1800 rpm 80% of the torque is available .
quote:
Originally posted by grassracer
As in the title, I'm looking at a transplant for my race car to achieve approx 200bhp (flywheel). Some simple rules, no turbos, superchargers, maximum capacity for 16v motors is 2.0 and it must mate to a rwd box fairly easily!! Now I know nothing is going to be dirt cheap but how would you recommend getting there on a budget ??
If you can above 2.0, how about a nice alfa V6
190bhp so should be able to,get 200 wioth out much effort.
cheap as chips.
quote:
Originally posted by grazzledazzle
Mondeo St200 2.5 V6.
202bhp as standard with all the restrictive ford stuff on it. Less than £500 delivered to your door.
Bargain.
<-------------- I've got one.