My engine started out fine, then began only starting on the second attempt (consistently on the second attempt, would crank forever first time then start straight away second time which was odd), then became hard to start at all, then slowly lost power and died while driving and will now not start at all.

Fuel pump has power, engine cranks fine, there is a spark. No fault codes.

Engine will start briefly with the help of a squirt of EasyStart spray, then dies after a few seconds.

So pretty sure there is a fuel problem: pumps, injectors, FPR, maybe ECU? That's about the only options I think. I plan to start by testing fuel pressure while cranking, this will tell me if it's pumps/FPR (if bad) or injectors/ECU (if good). If pressure is bad it should be easy enough to tell if the pump is working just by looking at flow from the return hose (if there's lots the pump is fine). If pressure is good, then I should be able to hear the injectors clicking (or not) to see if it's ECU or injectors?

Anyone got any other suggestions/tips/ideas? ta.

[Edited on 22/10/14 by rodgling]

Sounds like crank sensor symptoms.

I'd heard that so I replaced it (with a proper ultra-expensive BMW one), no joy :-( Anyway, the fact that it only starts with the addition of easy-start basically proves that it's lack of fuel, not a timing/sensor issue I think.

Sounds like you have a plan in place to start checking.

I looked at an MGF once that had similar issues. They were intermittent and it would start ok the one minute then struggle to start the next.
It turned out to be a faulty ECU, The clue though was listening to how long the fuel pump primed for when starting..

It didn't bring the EFI light on the dash and was only confirmed by hooking it up to a test rig at the local fuel injection specialists. (I didn't have a code reader in them days).

I would do a NOID light test to see if the injectors are firing.

Crank sensor is another possible.

Having said that the coolant temperature sensor for ECU would also be a prime suspect.

[Edited on 22/10/14 by britishtrident]

Provide your put with a supply from the battery to make sure its not the ecu. Make sure you cut the wire and join it so it does not back feed the 12v to the ecu.

That will check the pump.

Taking plugs out and having a sniff sniffing your ITB sniffing the exhaust will then tell if your injectors are working.

If there is not petrol wiff then try some jet cleaner on the injectors.

Check fuel filter if there is one in line.

Report back!!!

Good luck.

Compression?

Has it still got the EWS? Does that cut fuel?

Fpr possibly have you checked there's pressure at the rail ?

It won't be compression as it will run (briefly) on easy-start spray so it must have OK timing and compression.

EWS is OK, I can hear the relay inside it clicking, I can see a spark and I can see power at the pump during cranking.

Checking fuel pressure is the next step. A noid (or scope, I guess) test on the injectors is probably a go too.

Has it got a chipped key? I had similar on a Peugeot a few years ago. Turned out the key couldn't be recognised for some reason. It would fire briefly but not pick up.

We had to get the ecu to recognise the key again. If I remember we left it with the key in the ignition turned on for about 15 minutes and it fired up first turn after that.

Just a thought.

quote:

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Originally posted by Brian R
Has it got a chipped key? I had similar on a Peugeot a few years ago. Turned out the key couldn't be recognised for some reason. It would fire briefly but not pick up.

We had to get the ecu to recognise the key again. If I remember we left it with the key in the ignition turned on for about 15 minutes and it fired up first turn after that.

Just a thought.

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Hi Dave, its an EWS issue. I had the same thing when building mine if we cast our minds back? Has some wiring moved/broken?

Hi mate, thanks but pretty sure it isn't the EWS immobiliser - I can hear the EWS relay click, and it's making a spark - also there's no EWS fault code. I think none of those things would be true if there was an EWS problem, EWS kills the spark for one thing.

Also the way it lost power and finally died doesn't sound very much like EWS - it went from a slight misfire to a complete loss of power and stalling over several minutes, and then wouldn't start any more. Can't see the EWS doing that.

Don't remember your EWS issue - what happened with yours?

Could be a wiring issue, to injectors perhaps.

quote:

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It won't be compression as it will run (briefly) on easy-start spray so it must have OK timing and compression.

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If you can disconnect the fuel line at the fuel rail, place in a decent sized bottle and turn the engine over. If no fuel comes out, work back towards the pump/tank. If you have fuel coming out, the issue is injector side (or possibly fuel pressure. I recently had a similar problem on my diesel polo. It was the fuel cut off valve - the relay was clicking at the appropriate times as if working, but no fuel would come out of the pump.
Good luck
Hugh

quote:

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Originally posted by rodgling
Hi mate, thanks but pretty sure it isn't the EWS immobiliser - I can hear the EWS relay click, and it's making a spark - also there's no EWS fault code. I think none of those things would be true if there was an EWS problem, EWS kills the spark for one thing.

Also the way it lost power and finally died doesn't sound very much like EWS - it went from a slight misfire to a complete loss of power and stalling over several minutes, and then wouldn't start any more. Can't see the EWS doing that.

Don't remember your EWS issue - what happened with yours?

Could be a wiring issue, to injectors perhaps.

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Yeah, 12V at the pump (drops a bit to 9.5 while cranking). Did you get an EWS fault code?

I can't quite remember! does the voltage stay at 12v or does it drop out?

Most fuel rails usually have a bleed nipple like a bike valve , pressurise the system with key on and off a few times
Then push the valve down should spray fuel like a goodun if there's pressure there

And don't do it if engine hot obviously

A bit of progress made: when I said it had progressed from being hard to start to not starting at all.. turns out this is because it ran out of fuel

Fuel added, it's back to being fairly hard to start, but it will start and run. The new crank sensor may be helping, not really sure.

Pressure sensor plumbed in. Pressure is OK-ish (4.4 bar, should be 5 bar) with the pump running and the engine off, but rapidly drops to zero when the pump is switched off. So I think either the check valves in the pumps are not holding pressure, or the FPR is leaking a bit. Or I've got a leak somewhere, but I can't smell or see one so hopefully it's not that... Anyway, have ordered a couple of external check valves to ensure that fuel can't leak back through the pumps, will see if that improves things.

I was jokingly going to suggest it had run out of juice, but didn't want to insult you

Yeah, this was checked (not by me) and it seemed to have lots of fuel - then it ran for 20 minutes and turned out to be dry. So not sure if it was a misreading or the fuel disappeared somewhere - there's no sign or smell of a leak, but equally it's quite hard to screw up reading fuel level (by dipping a hose into the tank)...

I changed the fuel filter on my E46 325i which had a FPR incorporated into it. Ran loads better afterwards, might be worth a try if it's a similar setup

Fitted the check valves in line with the pumps, so the pumps are definitely good to hold pressure now. Still seeing a pressure drop - has to be a stuck open injector or a faulty FPR?

Next step is to hook up the fuel rail out of the engine and see if the injectors leak when pressurised.

why would the leaky injectors prevent it from starting?

If the pressure is there and they are working under normal cranking conditions then I am not sure you are looking down the right alley.

I still think checking the injectors is a god shout. You have everything else but no bang.

When it does start does it run rough? Does is rev freely?

Now you have fuel in it you can actually start diagnosing again!!

We have all made that mistake. My mate unplugged a crank sensor without telling me and it took me days to find out why my completely faultless engine has suddenly decided to stop firing.

I saw the funny side of it. . . . .just.

quote:

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Originally posted by bi22le
why would the leaky injectors prevent it from starting?

If the pressure is there and they are working under normal cranking conditions then I am not sure you are looking down the right alley.

I still think checking the injectors is a god shout. You have everything else but no bang.

When it does start does it run rough? Does is rev freely?

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Bought some proper valves (Sytec one way fuel valves) which appear to hold fuel pressure at 4 bar when the pumps aren't running. Problem solved, car starts first time, every time :-)

The saying I use in triumphant times like this is:

Get the f♡ck in there sun shine!!!

Normally quite loudly.

Ahem. . Well done sunny, enjoy Bedford.

Yeah there was a bit of swearing throughout the process :-)

Bedford was good, fuel valves did their job nicely and the sun stayed out - great day until I lost brakes (pads got too thin so started overheating too easily) and throttle (cable snapped)! Easy fixes though, and still a fun day.

If you're struggling with a sticking injector and blowing fuel through the area will /stink/ of fuel and your sump may well have a higher level now. Even a slight misfire from my running engine coats the garage door in fuel and stinks for days.