Tudor (Ted) Miron
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 posted on 22/8/03 at 01:24 PM |
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MK GT1 development...wrong direction may be?
Hi All,
Once I sow MK GT1 I was really impressed. Great alternative to Radical and rivals. Looking good and reasonable price(most important)
Had some chating with Jon and a phone conversation with Martin I started to worry a bit.
The car is still very much in development phase so one never know what will come in the end.
I want to make very clear that I don't wan't to offend MK in anyway. Opening this discussion (if one will ever happen)
is may be a way to give some feadback from potential clients (ever growing MK comunity  ) to developers.
What worrys me:
Front suspension - I'v heared that there's equal lengh paralell double wishbones.... My (little) knowlege says that this setup is not
the best available.
it has very poor (even with long arms) camber control in roll (almost equal to shassis roll angle) thought camber variation in bump and droop is good
(small). Most susp. designers go for unequal/unparalell wishbones. May be I'm wrong...
MK is planning a Dedion rear insteed of IRS they have now..... For me it sounds like a huge step backwards... Properly
developed double wishbones IS allways better - at list all modern susp theory says so.
I'd like to hear your opinions.
Cheers
Ted
PS: Anyway I'm very confident that we'll have a new nice affordable car - thanks to MK.
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SteveO
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| posted on 22/8/03 at 01:32 PM |
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Hi
i'm not a kitcar guru, but the point about Mk is that its nicely priced and very open to personal touches and improvements. If develop something
on the issues u mentioned thats makes it handle better pls share it with us.
Steve
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Wadders
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| posted on 22/8/03 at 04:32 PM |
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I suppose a lot depends on what you want to do with the car, i guess most will end up as trackday cars so a De-deon may actually be better than IRS.
Sometimes i think we maybe get a bit hung up on theory and design specifications, when for the majority of us, driving ability would let us down well
before we found the limits of the car.
Al.
(Ted) Miron
Hi All,
Once I sow MK GT1 I was really impressed. Great alternative to Radical and rivals. Looking good and reasonable price(most important)
Had some chating with Jon and a phone conversation with Martin I started to worry a bit.
The car is still very much in development phase so one never know what will come in the end.
I want to make very clear that I don't wan't to offend MK in anyway. Opening this discussion (if one will ever happen)
is may be a way to give some feadback from potential clients (ever growing MK comunity ) to developers.
What worrys me:
Front suspension - I'v heared that there's equal lengh paralell double wishbones.... My (little) knowlege says that this setup is not
the best available.
it has very poor (even with long arms) camber control in roll (almost equal to shassis roll angle) thought camber variation in bump and droop is good
(small). Most susp. designers go for unequal/unparalell wishbones. May be I'm wrong...
MK is planning a Dedion rear insteed of IRS they have now..... For me it sounds like a huge step backwards... Properly
developed double wishbones IS allways better - at list all modern susp theory says so.
I'd like to hear your opinions.
Cheers
Ted
PS: Anyway I'm very confident that we'll have a new nice affordable car - thanks to MK. [/quote
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chrisg
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| posted on 22/8/03 at 05:13 PM |
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repeat after me:-
I must ignore the obvious troll
Cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
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Wadders
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| posted on 22/8/03 at 09:33 PM |
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Damn, i feel all silly now, even had to look up what a troll is, as far as i knew they just lived under bridges and scared goats shitless.
Ta chris.
i]Originally posted by chrisg
repeat after me:-
I must ignore the obvious troll
Cheers
Chris
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Tudor (Ted) Miron
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| posted on 23/8/03 at 08:56 AM |
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Oops... Trolls are here 
If serious I have to say that I'm not a Schumaher by any means but I'm racing professionaly and working as instructor in racing school. I
believe that if given enough track time and some proper coaching 90% of people will do reasonably
well. Say if one get's 20 - 30hours on track it's usualy enough. (just my personal
coaching expireance) I agree that it's not enough for driver to start messing with setup and such.
It's aloso very interesting to hear that it's common thinking that De dion is beter
than IRS (I'm not tolking about public road driving) As far as I know it's only advantage over live axsel is somewhat redused unsprung
mass. You wount find any serious racing car using dependant suspension unless it's tech. reg. specifyed
(Austalian V8's for example)
I'm curious was there any real comparition (head to head track teast) of sevensque cars assuming everything other than rear susp. is the
same?
Now GT1 is a different style than sevensque cars. It's a Sports Car - LMP style - at list it's styling. It uses modern aerodinamic
devices such as splitters,diffusers and healthy rearwing. So why on earth it should have a 50 year old design under that ultramodern skin?
Once agein - not trying to offend anyone
Cheers
Ted
[Edited on 23/8/03 by Tudor (Ted) Miron]
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cat7even
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| posted on 9/9/03 at 10:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Tudor (Ted) Miron
Hi All,
Once I sow MK GT1 I was really impressed. Great alternative to Radical and rivals. Looking good and reasonable price(most important)
Had some chating with Jon and a phone conversation with Martin I started to worry a bit.
The car is still very much in development phase so one never know what will come in the end.
I want to make very clear that I don't wan't to offend MK in anyway. Opening this discussion (if one will ever happen)
is may be a way to give some feadback from potential clients (ever growing MK comunity ) to developers.
What worrys me:
Front suspension - I'v heared that there's equal lengh paralell double wishbones.... My (little) knowlege says that this setup is not
the best available.
it has very poor (even with long arms) camber control in roll (almost equal to shassis roll angle) thought camber variation in bump and droop is good
(small). Most susp. designers go for unequal/unparalell wishbones. May be I'm wrong...
MK is planning a Dedion rear insteed of IRS they have now..... For me it sounds like a huge step backwards... Properly
developed double wishbones IS allways better - at list all modern susp theory says so.
I'd like to hear your opinions.
Cheers
Ted
PS: Anyway I'm very confident that we'll have a new nice affordable car - thanks to MK.
asfai can see on the http://www.mkownersclub.co.uk/GT1_page.htm at least the back susp is unequal in length upper vs lower.
Re De dion it is easier to set up and get working. That the design is old doesn´t mean its no good
ICE is over a hundred the wheel etc. etc.
[Edited on 9/9/03 by cat7even]
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lococost
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| posted on 9/9/03 at 04:45 PM |
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I've done a bit of remote control racing in my time and therefore know a bit of setting up a car (although not everything, it is VERY
complicated).
What I do know is that IRS does make the car able to change the dynamic behaviour of the car: the amount of camber change and the roll centre due to
suspension movement can be changed and this WILL change the behaviour of any car even if the road is as flat as a pool table. IRS will make any car
better than dedion if setup correctly.
MK's site says they've tested the GT1 on different track so they should have a good setup
For more information on car handling checkout:
Elvo's RC setup guide
He's a guy I used to race with, Is now Belgian champion offroad 1/10 electro, and does know everyting about suspension settings.
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cat7even
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| posted on 12/9/03 at 12:56 PM |
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in an old kitcar mag the front suspension is more or less a mirror image of the Indy
ie unequal length wishbones (albeit ovalshaped tubes) with sierra uprights
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