rodgling
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| posted on 22/10/14 at 07:20 PM |
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M3 evo not starting :-(
My engine started out fine, then began only starting on the second attempt (consistently on the second attempt, would crank forever first time then
start straight away second time which was odd), then became hard to start at all, then slowly lost power and died while driving and will now not start
at all.
Fuel pump has power, engine cranks fine, there is a spark. No fault codes.
Engine will start briefly with the help of a squirt of EasyStart spray, then dies after a few seconds.
So pretty sure there is a fuel problem: pumps, injectors, FPR, maybe ECU? That's about the only options I think. I plan to start by testing fuel
pressure while cranking, this will tell me if it's pumps/FPR (if bad) or injectors/ECU (if good). If pressure is bad it should be easy enough to
tell if the pump is working just by looking at flow from the return hose (if there's lots the pump is fine). If pressure is good, then I should
be able to hear the injectors clicking (or not) to see if it's ECU or injectors?
Anyone got any other suggestions/tips/ideas? ta.
[Edited on 22/10/14 by rodgling]
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adithorp
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| posted on 22/10/14 at 07:38 PM |
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Sounds like crank sensor symptoms.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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rodgling
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| posted on 22/10/14 at 07:41 PM |
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I'd heard that so I replaced it (with a proper ultra-expensive BMW one), no joy :-( Anyway, the fact that it only starts with the addition of
easy-start basically proves that it's lack of fuel, not a timing/sensor issue I think.
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perksy
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| posted on 22/10/14 at 07:41 PM |
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Sounds like you have a plan in place to start checking.
I looked at an MGF once that had similar issues. They were intermittent and it would start ok the one minute then struggle to start the next.
It turned out to be a faulty ECU, The clue though was listening to how long the fuel pump primed for when starting..
It didn't bring the EFI light on the dash and was only confirmed by hooking it up to a test rig at the local fuel injection specialists. (I
didn't have a code reader in them days).
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britishtrident
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| posted on 22/10/14 at 07:50 PM |
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I would do a NOID light test to see if the injectors are firing.
Crank sensor is another possible.
Having said that the coolant temperature sensor for ECU would also be a prime suspect.
[Edited on 22/10/14 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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bi22le
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| posted on 22/10/14 at 07:53 PM |
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Provide your put with a supply from the battery to make sure its not the ecu. Make sure you cut the wire and join it so it does not back feed the 12v
to the ecu.
That will check the pump.
Taking plugs out and having a sniff \ sniffing your ITB \ sniffing the exhaust will then tell if your injectors are working.
If there is not petrol wiff then try some jet cleaner on the injectors.
Check fuel filter if there is one in line.
Report back!!!
Good luck.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 22/10/14 at 11:06 PM |
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Compression?
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Nickp
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| posted on 23/10/14 at 06:33 AM |
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Has it still got the EWS? Does that cut fuel?
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Non custom
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| posted on 23/10/14 at 07:20 AM |
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Fpr possibly have you checked there's pressure at the rail ?
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rodgling
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| posted on 23/10/14 at 08:34 AM |
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It won't be compression as it will run (briefly) on easy-start spray so it must have OK timing and compression.
EWS is OK, I can hear the relay inside it clicking, I can see a spark and I can see power at the pump during cranking.
Checking fuel pressure is the next step. A noid (or scope, I guess) test on the injectors is probably a go too.
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Brian R
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| posted on 23/10/14 at 09:37 AM |
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Has it got a chipped key? I had similar on a Peugeot a few years ago. Turned out the key couldn't be recognised for some reason. It would fire
briefly but not pick up.
We had to get the ecu to recognise the key again. If I remember we left it with the key in the ignition turned on for about 15 minutes and it fired up
first turn after that.
Just a thought.
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Nickp
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| posted on 23/10/14 at 09:54 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R
Has it got a chipped key? I had similar on a Peugeot a few years ago. Turned out the key couldn't be recognised for some reason. It would fire
briefly but not pick up.
We had to get the ecu to recognise the key again. If I remember we left it with the key in the ignition turned on for about 15 minutes and it fired up
first turn after that.
Just a thought.
That's effectively what the EWS (BMW security) is.
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franky
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| posted on 23/10/14 at 11:01 AM |
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Hi Dave, its an EWS issue. I had the same thing when building mine if we cast our minds back? Has some wiring moved/broken?
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rodgling
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| posted on 23/10/14 at 11:15 AM |
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Hi mate, thanks but pretty sure it isn't the EWS immobiliser - I can hear the EWS relay click, and it's making a spark - also
there's no EWS fault code. I think none of those things would be true if there was an EWS problem, EWS kills the spark for one thing.
Also the way it lost power and finally died doesn't sound very much like EWS - it went from a slight misfire to a complete loss of power and
stalling over several minutes, and then wouldn't start any more. Can't see the EWS doing that.
Don't remember your EWS issue - what happened with yours?
Could be a wiring issue, to injectors perhaps.
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 23/10/14 at 11:42 AM |
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quote:
It won't be compression as it will run (briefly) on easy-start spray so it must have OK timing and compression.
Obviously I can't hear it running and you're best placed to know, but I've had cars with chuff-all compression running ok for a few
seconds on easystart - it doesn't require good compression to run unlike petrol.
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hughpinder
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| posted on 23/10/14 at 11:56 AM |
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If you can disconnect the fuel line at the fuel rail, place in a decent sized bottle and turn the engine over. If no fuel comes out, work back towards
the pump/tank. If you have fuel coming out, the issue is injector side (or possibly fuel pressure. I recently had a similar problem on my diesel
polo. It was the fuel cut off valve - the relay was clicking at the appropriate times as if working, but no fuel would come out of the pump.
Good luck
Hugh
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franky
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| posted on 23/10/14 at 12:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rodgling
Hi mate, thanks but pretty sure it isn't the EWS immobiliser - I can hear the EWS relay click, and it's making a spark - also
there's no EWS fault code. I think none of those things would be true if there was an EWS problem, EWS kills the spark for one thing.
Also the way it lost power and finally died doesn't sound very much like EWS - it went from a slight misfire to a complete loss of power and
stalling over several minutes, and then wouldn't start any more. Can't see the EWS doing that.
Don't remember your EWS issue - what happened with yours?
Could be a wiring issue, to injectors perhaps.
I did have a spark but it wouldn't fire. Are you getting a constant 12v at the fuel pump? Have you checked the relays?
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rodgling
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| posted on 23/10/14 at 01:18 PM |
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Yeah, 12V at the pump (drops a bit to 9.5 while cranking). Did you get an EWS fault code?
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franky
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| posted on 23/10/14 at 09:13 PM |
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I can't quite remember! does the voltage stay at 12v or does it drop out?
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Non custom
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| posted on 24/10/14 at 11:16 AM |
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Most fuel rails usually have a bleed nipple like a bike valve , pressurise the system with key on and off a few times
Then push the valve down should spray fuel like a goodun if there's pressure there
And don't do it if engine hot obviously
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rodgling
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| posted on 24/10/14 at 12:40 PM |
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A bit of progress made: when I said it had progressed from being hard to start to not starting at all.. turns out this is because it ran out of fuel
Fuel added, it's back to being fairly hard to start, but it will start and run. The new crank sensor may be helping, not really sure.
Pressure sensor plumbed in. Pressure is OK-ish (4.4 bar, should be 5 bar) with the pump running and the engine off, but rapidly drops to zero when the
pump is switched off. So I think either the check valves in the pumps are not holding pressure, or the FPR is leaking a bit. Or I've got a leak
somewhere, but I can't smell or see one so hopefully it's not that... Anyway, have ordered a couple of external check valves to ensure
that fuel can't leak back through the pumps, will see if that improves things.
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Nickp
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| posted on 24/10/14 at 02:05 PM |
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I was jokingly going to suggest it had run out of juice, but didn't want to insult you 
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rodgling
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| posted on 24/10/14 at 02:10 PM |
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Yeah, this was checked (not by me) and it seemed to have lots of fuel - then it ran for 20 minutes and turned out to be dry. So not sure if it was a
misreading or the fuel disappeared somewhere - there's no sign or smell of a leak, but equally it's quite hard to screw up reading fuel
level (by dipping a hose into the tank)...
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me!
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| posted on 24/10/14 at 03:00 PM |
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I changed the fuel filter on my E46 325i which had a FPR incorporated into it. Ran loads better afterwards, might be worth a try if it's a
similar setup
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rodgling
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| posted on 25/10/14 at 11:17 AM |
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Fitted the check valves in line with the pumps, so the pumps are definitely good to hold pressure now. Still seeing a pressure drop - has to be a
stuck open injector or a faulty FPR?
Next step is to hook up the fuel rail out of the engine and see if the injectors leak when pressurised.
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