James
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| posted on 19/11/05 at 07:38 PM |
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According to Channel 4 a few minutes ago, Police deaths have actually reduced since 1980.
In addition to that, every time the Police have been asked the question whether they want to routinely carry guns they say no!!. I know
we have some serious law enforcement experts here but I suspect it would be fair to say that Police officers are more qualified than us to say whether
they feel they should carry guns or not!
Furthermore- how can anyone think that more lives would be saved by *more* people (cops or otherwise) carrying guns! Would a criminal be *less* likely
to carry a weapon if he knew that all Police he came across were armed- of course not!
As to the specific case here- the Police were alerted by a security alarm being pressed in a Travel Agents. Much like burglar alarms, I'm sure
these go off accidentally all the time. Would you expect armed Police to every one of these? I used to work in a papershop- the security alarm button
was at knee height by the till- can you imagine the number of times this got pressed accidentally!!! When 90% of these alarms will be false alarms can
you really see the Police sending a full SAS style entry team to every one!
The Police in this case were shot before they got to the door of the Travel Agency- I'm sure no one at all had any idea what was going on-
otherwise more experienced officers would have been sent- as opposed to someone with 18mths and another with 8 weeks experience.
It's obviously awful that these people have been shot but more guns on the streets can *only* mean more deaths be they Police, criminal or
accidental. I assume you have heard of Harry Stanley!!!
Cheers,
James
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"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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steve_gus
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| posted on 19/11/05 at 09:08 PM |
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Hi James.
Yep, I posted a couple times in the last two days references to Mr Stanley, the table leg man.
If alarms regularly go off in the way described in your shop, then the owner should be billed 1000 quid or so for each false one. In that way, police
resources would be better used and the call could actually be taken as a real threat.
Police killed in UK since 1900
http://www.policememorial.org.uk/LestWeForget/centuryofsacrifice.htm
and there have been quite a few police deaths off duty this year - eight have died in biking accidents alone!
http://www.policememorial.org.uk/NationalRoll/2005/NPORH_2005.htm
[Edited on 19/11/05 by steve_gus]
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 19/11/05 at 10:44 PM |
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It just goes to prove that even after Hungerford and Dunblane that the people who owned handguns legally were right to say that banning firearms would
not stop the killings at street level. In fact it seems to be becoming something of a culture.
What is the country coming to evertime you turn on the news it's violence and beatings or gangland killings
My heart sank this morning when I heard the news especially as they both have kids. What a waste of life especially as these are people who cared
enough to do a tough job and make society a safer place for normal honest considerate people. My thoughts are with their famillies.
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dl_peabody
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 06:01 AM |
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My thoughts and sympathies go out to the police woman and the families and friends struggling with this terrible incident.
Any loss of life is a sad thing more so when that person is trying to serve and protect the community that they live in. There are fewer things more
sad and more noble than that.
Rarely I give my opinions so blantantly or paint with such a WIDE brush. Please remember that my opinion is about as valueable as a two day old lotto
ticket. If my opinion has any value to you, feel free to keep it, otherwise threat it according to it's merit.
I would like to offer condolences to those who suffered loss in this tragic incident.
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Cita
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 08:32 AM |
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Yes it's a most sad thing and a drama for those left behind.
Now the search will start for who's responsible for this and probably it will be the police force who will get the blame,not the scumbaggs who
fired the gun.
I think the family's are in for a very long period of media exposure and that in itself is a punishment on top of the loss 
Cita
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steve_gus
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| posted on 20/11/05 at 12:54 PM |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4453848.stm
[Edited on 20/11/05 by steve_gus]
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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James
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 10:02 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve_gus
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4453848.stm
[Edited on 20/11/05 by steve_gus]
Oh for goodness sake!!! 
I really, truly hope that this idea doesn't take off. Personally I'm very proud of the fact that in this country we're
'above' the need to execute people.
How can being dead actually be any punishment... you're dead for Chrissake!!!!!
If, like me, you don't believe in heaven/hell then when a evil person dies they're just gone and that's it- therefore where's
the punishment if you kill them? If you execute them they don't get punished- it's the easy way out.
If you do believe people go to hell then it'll be for eternity... so why rush things now? What's the rest of their natural life (say 70
years) in prison compared to an eternity in hell.
Either way killing them doesn't gain you anything.
At the same time there's always the possibility of a miscarriage of justice. We've all heard of the Guildford Four or the Birmingham Six.
These people were banged up for *years* on dodgy evidence.
Being banged up for something you didn't do must be pretty damn bad but actually killing an innocent man???
Personally I just don't think it's worth the risk.
If I recall correctly, the last person ever hanged in this country was a grave digger with learning difficulties. It's taken until Forty years
after his death for someone to admit it was a mistake and then pardon him.
The idea of state execution sickens me- this is a civilised country not some third world dictatorship.
Cheers,
James
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"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 10:15 AM |
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How many times have we heard of people that have killed being released only to kill again ? Anyone caught with a gun should face a long sentence.
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Peteff
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 10:44 AM |
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How can being dead actually be any punishment
It's not something I'm looking forward to. There are valid arguments for both sides on the subject and the kind of people who commit these
crimes do not hold life in any way valuable, unless it's their own and then it is the thing they value above all others. It's the only
thing you can't take from someone and keep for yourself. They obviously have no remorse or they would come forward to apologise for robbing a
family of their mother and wife, and as such lose their right to be a part of normal society. Whether you lock them away until you deem them to have
been deprived of enough of their liberty to compensate the family for their loss, or hang them to deprive them of their existence in retribution is
not a decision to be taken lightly but trying to reintegrate someone with this mentality into normal society doesn't seem to be working.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 11:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
How many times have we heard of people that have killed being released only to kill again ? Anyone caught with a gun should face a long sentence.
IMO anyone who murders (1st degree), be it with a gun or otherwise, should face life in prison. Not 35yrs as the life sentence here stands, but actual
life. Basically if they have done it once, the vast majority are released and do it again. Two options, life in prison, or execution. Simple as that
as far as I am concerned. Life in prison being the better of the 2 options as they then serve a proper punishment.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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JoelP
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 01:06 PM |
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to me its less punishment and more protecting society.
I cant condone exectution due to the miscarriage of justice possibility. Limiting it to police murder at least rules out crimes of passion etc , or
whatever pathetic excuse a murderer may come up with, but theres still the possibility of a false conviction.
Unfortunately life in prision is a damned expensive thing. However, if we reprioritised national spending, im sure it could be easily accomodated.
Plus we need new sentancing guidelines for all crime, and an extra 100,000 prision places. Revised prision guidelines, revised parole board
operations, no reward greater than politeness and respect for good behaviour (ie no playstations and sat tv), a suitable punishment for bad behaviour,
and proper education for kids. Parental accountability for childrens crimes, and parental tuition.  Oh, and some flying pigs 
and rewrite the human rights act to put common sense above the letter of the law
[Edited on 21/11/05 by JoelP]
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Cita
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 06:15 PM |
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On the news overhere:a young couple was put in jail for beating their own baby to death!!!
When the coroner came into the apartment the young couple was watching TV and notted with their head to indicate where the room was with the dead
baby!!
Broken ribs,fractured scull,broken arm....
These scumbags dont deserve a trial,even a bullet is to much money spend on that trash!!!
You so called "humanity" defenders can shout anything you want about death penalty but there are limits to everything...even tolerance.
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 07:06 PM |
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just heard that gary glitter faces the firing squad in veitnam for sex with a 12 yo girl
thatl get the liberals quivering.
the scumbags that murdered the wpc were from somalia,no doubt asylum seekers with tales of woe and persecution for being a crim of some sort.
another fact,30%of people in english jails are foregien
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 07:35 PM |
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the death penalty is a great detterant
you cant compare us to other countries where guns are legal and the countries three hundred times the size of us
theyll never do it anyway
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gazza285
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 07:47 PM |
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Perhaps jail should be made more of a punishment instead of the away from home holiday that it has become. The criminals in jail now have the right to
a cell of there own which include a private toilet and shower, TV access (most long termers buy there electrical gear on tick, as they have a small,
but garanteed income, and nothing to spend it on), computer access including internet access, and all fully heated and double glazed. Furthermore they
are supplied with three hot meals a day as well as sports facilities, libraries, and educational facilities.
If they are denied any of this then bleeding heart human rights lawyers paid for by the tax-payer will scream blue murder while collecting hefty legal
aid payments.
How to save the prison service a fortune;
Turn off the heating and give the guards coats,
Remove TV and internet access,
Remove all bar one blanket from the beds,
Introduce physical labour.
Remind the criminals that prison is for punishment, not for a worry free existance.
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 07:50 PM |
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or send them to the russian gulags
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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steve_gus
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 07:55 PM |
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I am not a supporter of the death penalty - but like everyone else, on the spur of the moment it somehow seems appropriate in cases like Ian
Huntley.
Then, when I think about it again, I dont support the death penalty.
Living the rest of your life in prison is a worse punishment that having to go through the relatively short ritual of execution.
Plus, putting the right to take life into the hands of the state is a dangerous thing.
Bear in mind it will be a cold day in hell before the death penalty will ever come back to the UK. Its against the rules of the EU - we would have to
leave Europe to have the death penalty.
That north american country with a higher police death rate has the death penalty, and it doenst seem to lessen the 12:1 ratio
atb
steve
[Edited on 21/11/05 by steve_gus]
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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flak monkey
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 07:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gazza285
Perhaps jail should be made more of a punishment instead of the away from home holiday that it has become. The criminals in jail now have the right to
a cell of there own which include a private toilet and shower, TV access (most long termers buy there electrical gear on tick, as they have a small,
but garanteed income, and nothing to spend it on), computer access including internet access, and all fully heated and double glazed. Furthermore they
are supplied with three hot meals a day as well as sports facilities, libraries, and educational facilities.
If they are denied any of this then bleeding heart human rights lawyers paid for by the tax-payer will scream blue murder while collecting hefty legal
aid payments.
How to save the prison service a fortune;
Turn off the heating and give the guards coats,
Remove TV and internet access,
Remove all bar one blanket from the beds,
Introduce physical labour.
Remind the criminals that prison is for punishment, not for a worry free existance.
Too bloody right!
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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steve_gus
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 08:04 PM |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/4455918.stm
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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Cita
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 08:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
or send them to the russian gulags
What do you mean by "send them"?
Nothing wrong with their feet as most of them can run very fast when the police are on in sight.
A quick march of a few thousand miles will cool off their temper to start with!
Cheers Cita
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JoelP
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 08:05 PM |
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thats amazing steve, id just copied that url off the beeb and was just deciding which thread to post it on! certainly casts a different light on the
orwellian arguments
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steve_gus
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 08:08 PM |
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I dont like the idea of tracker cams, but at least in that case it did some good!
'your honor, please take into account that the defendants average overall speed to London was 70.98 mph'.
thats gonna make em throw the book at them.
atb
steve
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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JoelP
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 08:11 PM |
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lol
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Cita
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 08:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve_gus
Plus, putting the right to take life into the hands of the state is a dangerous thing.
atb
steve
[Edited on 21/11/05 by steve_gus]
Putting the power to take life into the hands of criminals can be considered as being stupid !
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steve_gus
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| posted on 21/11/05 at 08:24 PM |
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Isnt Marc Detroux still alive?
atb
steve
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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