jollygreengiant
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 01:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
A rediculous amount of money plowed into the NHS and schools, trying to undo the state they were left in 10 years ago.
David
The trouble is that it was all ploughed into managment rather than the front end where it WAS needed.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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Coose
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 02:07 PM |
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Tony Benn for PM! 
Spin 'er off Well...
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goodall
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 02:55 PM |
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personally being of a younger generation than all of you i hate labour cause they have caused 2 wars in the east that in my opinion have made
terrorism in the next 10 years much worse than it was ever going to be from the east and not to mention they were drity and wrong wars aswell.
vote lib dem maybe they did well in the last election, but i dont kno of any of there policies. personally none of the major parties run here in
n.ireland so anyone i would ever vote for wont make a massive change to the goverment
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James
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 03:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by goodall
personally being of a younger generation than all of you i hate labour cause they have caused 2 wars in the east that in my opinion have made
terrorism in the next 10 years much worse than it was ever going to be from the east and not to mention they were drity and wrong wars aswell.
Wait a minute! How exactly did they "cause" the war in Afghanistan?
It's a fully UN mandated operation. That's why it's being fought by us, the US, Germany, Canada, Poland, the Netherlands and about
30 other countries.
Do you really think a group of fundamentalist Muslims (The Taliban) should be allowed to run a country that they've taken (and reduced to the
Dark Ages) by force? A country that was previously one of the few democratic states in the area!
Let's not forget that the Taliban were harbouring Al Queda!
Iraq is a different matter.... but don't conflate or confuse the two!
Cheers,
James
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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Catpuss
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 04:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
Sorry, I am old enough to remember 15 % interest rates and the building trade collapse which also led to me losing my home after 6 years of mortgage
paying.
The tories just let the working man rot while they filled their bank accounts with low wage contracts.
I don't think Labour have got it all right, especially immigration, but I have been able to work for the last 10 years, pay off my debts and
manage to build a car plus buy £11k worth of parts for the next one!
Exactly, all links back to what I said earlier. Whatever you do, you cant please everyone. Tell me one good thing the tories managed, which gains them
any credibility for the financial ruin they left this country and most of its population in?
[Edited on 10/5/07 by flak monkey]
I think the fact that the country hasn't collapsed after the tory great sell off of our national resources for a quick publicity stunt is pretty
good in its own right.
They sold off our resources knowing full well that if they got in next time they could blame all the woes on the private sector. If they didn't
get in then 5 years would be just enough time for all the chaos with fuel and rail to take effect and hopefully result in that leadership getting all
the flack.
I would say the only major downer with this governement has been the obession with terrorisim & poor imgration controls.
I'd probably blame them for the rise of the chav too and the pointlessness of ASBOs.
The Thatcher years brough so many people misery.
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dave1888
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 05:00 PM |
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I dont think it matters who gets into power Labour or Tories your still going to get shafted.
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Macbeast
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 07:45 PM |
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Quote "A stable economy with almost 60 consecutive quarters of growth, something the conservatives NEVER manged in 18 odd years.
Implementation of a floating exchange rate mechanism, one of the main key reasons we havent had huge interest rates and inflation in the past 10 years
and such a stable economy."
I seem to remember interest rates of 15% and two devaluations under a previous Labour administration when the British economy was in hock to the
World Bank. The main reason the economy is so relatively good today is the handing over of the setting of interest rates to the professionals at the
Bank of England.
If Labour are so good at handling the economy (and therefore the NHS ), why does that family have to appeal for money to send their kid to America?
After 10 years the "Mess that the Tories left" excuse is wearing a little thin.
Tory achievement ? How about wresting back control of the country from the unions and defence of the right NOT to join a union. And at least the
servicemen in the Falklands had enough flak (sorry David ) jackets to go round
What I can't stomach is being lied to ( WMD etc), the blatant sale of honours, the action in Iraq while refusing to do anything about Zimbabwe,
the suspension of Habeas Corpus and the presmption of innocent until proven guilty.
And most of all what I can't stomach is the complete lack of honour and personal responsibility amongst those who you would hope would set a
good example to the rest of us. - Police Chiefs (essentially a political appointment) whose men shoot dead innocent Brazilians, Home Secretaries who
can't tell you how many illegal immigrants there are in this country but lock up people who just might be associated with terrorists,
Chancellors of the Exchequer who lie about the advice they have received from the bank of England - have any of these resigned?
It seems that saying " Sorry, I blew it " is enough and then you carry on as before.
All right, the last years of the Tory govenment under Major were sleaze-ridden but at least Major (a weak man promoted beyond his abilities) was a
decent person. Show me a decent Labour politician today and it's got to be Dennis Skinner or Tony Benn. There aren't many others.
edit
Isn't it nice to have a good rant now and then ? 
[Edited on 10/5/07 by Macbeast]
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 07:56 PM |
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Just a quick question, how many of you would bother too vote ? OK 2 quick questions, how many of you voted in the recent local elections ?
The two main parties are now so close together it wouldn't make that much difference who got in. somtimes its better the devil you know.
A few observations, My missus is in hospital again, she was seen within minutes, on a ward in 30 minutes and too be honest the care as been 1st
class.
Two run down schools I drive past too work have both been knocked down and brand new ones re built.
My mortgage rate is not in double figures.
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oadamo
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 08:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
Just a quick question, how many of you would bother too vote ? OK 2 quick questions, how many of you voted in the recent local elections ?
The two main parties are now so close together it wouldn't make that much difference who got in. somtimes its better the devil you know.
A few observations, My missus is in hospital again, she was seen within minutes, on a ward in 30 minutes and too be honest the care as been 1st
class.
Two run down schools I drive past too work have both been knocked down and brand new ones re built.
My mortgage rate is not in double figures.
my other half is a nurse and all the jobs have been stoped due to funding. 4 wards have been shut down in her part. and she is being told now she has
to apply for her job again. so i cant see what they have done with all the money accept fill there pockets
adam
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 08:17 PM |
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I can only say it as I see it.......
How many more nurses are there now than 1997 ?
Whilst loads of money as been poured in there is not a bottomless pit, like we at home they all have too run too a budget, do we blame the government
whoever it is if funds are mismanaged ? I'm not going too say things are perfect, there not, but my partner as had a long term life threatening
illness, the treatment of which as been second too none, including the excellent dedicated nursing staff.
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oadamo
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 08:36 PM |
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my 8 year old has Rheumatoid Arthritis
and his treatment was second too none. shes worked at there for years and now theres a lot of cut backs and job losses.
so i can only put it down the the government for not sorting things out. and thats why a lot of nursing staff are moving to australia because of the
mess its in.
adam
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craig1410
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 08:51 PM |
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A little revolution every now and then is a healthy thing - I don't think it does any harm for the balance of power to tip back and forth every
now and then. Otherwise how will we really know which way is better?
Some of the things which really pi$$ me off are things like prisoners claiming that their human rights are violated by not being allowed to vote.
Utter nutsack - "civilian" rights suspended maybe but as a prisoner you are no longer a civilian. Human rights as far as I am concerned
protect things like your rights to live, be fed and not be tortured. There should be a fast track way of plugging holes like this where the MP's
just need a majority vote including the PM and maybe the Queen (just for fun) and then they can avoid wasting tax payer's money debating with
prisoners in court over their right to vote.
I also believe that prison is no place for a fine defaulter when there aren't enough prison places for serious offenders. I think prisons are
way too soft, especially on the serious offenders who treat it like a home away from home and rule the roost more so than some of the officers. I know
most prison officers are honest and do their best but the system make their job very difficult indeed and the odd bad apple makes it nigh on
impossible.
I would like clearer laws about protecting yourself in your own home to the point where an intruder has no legal rights if he enters your home without
consent None of this "reasonable force" nonsense!
Another thing which really gets on my wick (and this may not be popular with some of you) are people who think it is their god given right to go on
strike if they don't get a big enough pay rise. Is it any wonder why the UK has slipped behind many developing nations in the global economy
with this sort of attitude.
Other things which bug me are the proliferation of speed camera and speed bumps which the Conservatives have said they will stop. Immigration is also
a joke. Oh yeah and Cameron is also pledging to remove the crazy league tables and targets from the health service to let medical professionals make
the key decisions and actually get on with caring for patients.
I've been really impressed with David Cameron. He is clearly a skilled politician and with a bit more seasoning I think he can become an good
leader. Let's face it, he can't be any worse than Brown!
[Edited on 10/5/2007 by craig1410]
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JoelP
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 08:59 PM |
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i like blair myself, but he has made a few bad calls - to me his worst mistake is his role in the human rights act. I cant tell you his exact
contribution but whoever worded it needs shooting!
Im prepared to give GB a chance myself, an early election would be foolish, equally leaving it a few months is no use as he can fill that with
gimmicks to gain popularity. A year or more gives us time to see the man in action, and lets face it, in general elections you are really voting for
the leader, whatever the technicalities are.
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martyn_16v
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 09:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
I can only say it as I see it.......
How many more nurses are there now than 1997 ?
Whilst loads of money as been poured in there is not a bottomless pit, like we at home they all have too run too a budget, do we blame the government
whoever it is if funds are mismanaged ? I'm not going too say things are perfect, there not, but my partner as had a long term life threatening
illness, the treatment of which as been second too none, including the excellent dedicated nursing staff.
On the flip side, how many NHS trusts are there in serious debt now compared to then? Front-line staffing may be up right now, but give it 18 months
and the numbers will have been decimated. T'other half was until recently an NHS nurse manager, in the last year she saw her staffing budget cut
by 25%, then half, and now the home is being shut down altogether, because the trust can't afford to provide the care. It's not an
isolated case, most of the trusts in the region are slashing their staffing budgets, and there's only so many sri lankans who'll work 80
hour weeks for half of f' all. Of course governments can't be held responsible for what a middle-manager does with his budget, but they
are responsible for making policy that prioritises targets over actual care (and then incidentally massaging figures to make it look better for them,
a common theme for the current govt), for making policy that closes hospitals and leaves wards unused, and for not keeping a hold on the situation in
the first place. It's been clear for years that the NHS has been an in-efficiently managed service, it is up to government to put that right,
not to add to the management workload.
The sterling service you'll receive at many NHS sites has nothing whatsoever to do with good govt, or planning but because the front-line staff
work their arses off to help people despite ever worsening conditions for themselves. Ask anyone in the health service and they'll tell you that
everything is reaching breaking point, and there's not long left before it comes crashing down 
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Benzine
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 10:03 PM |
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The swirly ice cream, I don't know if you know, was invented by Margaret Thatcher, when she studied chemistry at Oxford. Just one of the
wonderful things she did before she was betrayed.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 10:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
. Just one of the wonderful things she did before she was betrayed.
Its about now I step out of the debate.
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Simon
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| posted on 10/5/07 at 10:17 PM |
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This Government - more national debt, low reserves, more/higher taxes, student fees in England not Scotland, human rights laws, devolving of UK power
to (unelected) Brussels, overcrowded prisons (referendum on bringing back the rope), filthy hospitals (and bankrupt trusts) - 80% of new hospitals in
Labour wards, bullshit on green issues, out of control immigration, complete disregard for electorate, more and more civil service personnel (how
labour justify reducing unemployed), 7 million on disability allowance (that's 1 in of the population - where are they all!!!!!!), cash for
honours, Iraq (though I agree Sadam got what he needed). List is endless
Tories won't be much better. Before Dave got voted leader he drove the same car as me - ZT260. Now he's got a windmill. Blokes another one
who says what he thinks we want to hear.
As far as I'm concerned we need Guy Fawkes back.
What I do want to know is why all students seem to think the labour party is "good". A friend of mine went to Uni, came out a labour
voter. Thinks this lot is a bunch of tossers!
ATB
Simon
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flak monkey
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| posted on 11/5/07 at 06:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
What I do want to know is why all students seem to think the labour party is "good". A friend of mine went to Uni, came out a labour
voter. Thinks this lot is a bunch of tossers!
ATB
Simon
Most of the people I know at uni are tree hugging do gooders who are so liberal it makes you want to cry. Either that or socialists. But maybe thats
just the people I hang about with 
And in answer to an earlier question, yes I do vote. If you dont, you have no right to complain. 
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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flak monkey
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| posted on 11/5/07 at 09:37 AM |
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/evandavis/2007/05/tony_blairs_economic_legacy_1.html
Make of it what you will. You can't deny the economy is in extremely good shape.
I'll stay out of the Thatcher arguments, the funs gone from those
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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goodall
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| posted on 11/5/07 at 09:52 AM |
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personally i feel theres no need in having a stable economy if the PM is dragging your country into wars that we have no place to be in.
but every system of government on the face of this planet was set up by terrorists and minority that forced there system of government on the people,
so maybe Afghanistan should have been left alone, personally i feel it was wrong what was going on there but we have no place to intervene, after all
the only reason we think it is wrong is because we have been rared in a western society and it is unfair for us to force our systems of government and
law and trade on to other countries if their leaders dont want it. ok so maybe its good to bring stability to the east but the only reason is to make
life more secure here
however im only 16 and i still dont have fully rounded political mind (like anyone ever does)
personally dont much like labour as i dont come from a working class background, but then again its always the middle class get screwed so there never
will be government in my favour
[Edited on 11/5/07 by goodall]
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JoelP
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| posted on 11/5/07 at 05:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/evandavis/2007/05/tony_blairs_economic_legacy_1.html
Make of it what you will. You can't deny the economy is in extremely good shape.
I'll stay out of the Thatcher arguments, the funs gone from those
comment number 3 says we dont make cars anymore! that made me chuckle.
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Simon
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| posted on 11/5/07 at 07:42 PM |
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I forgot.
Giving greater central government funding to Labour areas, resulting in unfair council tax bills for the rest of us, Gordon Brown introducing the
Insurance Premium Tax, raiding pension funds and taxing them - resulting in the closure of most decent company pensions, falsifying the inflation rate
(which exludes the two major cost increases for householders - gas and electric) Include these and inflation is nearer 7%.
Then there's the threat of bigbrother (we might as well have chips installed in our heads!!!), speed camera revenue raisers (including the
cancellation of a Governement funded report into effectiveness of cameras because it wasn't looking to go Bliars way.
ATB
Simon
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locogeoff
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| posted on 11/5/07 at 08:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
The swirly ice cream, I don't know if you know, was invented by Margaret Thatcher, when she studied chemistry at Oxford. Just one of the
wonderful things she did before she was betrayed.
But the swirly icecream was produced from the process that removed a percentage of cream from icecream and replaced by water. She later carried on
this milk thievery by removing free school milk for everybody, hence the term Thatcher Thatcher Milk snatcher.
Her party was also responsible for destroying the manufacturing industry in this country she was a cow!
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Simon
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| posted on 11/5/07 at 09:38 PM |
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"Her party was also responsible for destroying the manufacturing industry in this country she was a cow!"
Like the current shower have helped. Unless you're in Wales or Scotland where Gordy sends lots of money so they can give it to enterprising
souls!!
ATB
Simon
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