Hellfire
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 01:17 PM | |
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This thread's gone waaay off topic.........
AFAIK, MK Sportscars have never claimed that their roll-cage is fully MSA/FIA approved and if thats the case, they have nothing/no-one to answer
to.
If you decide to purchase an MK for competing in motorsport that requires a full MSA/FIA approved roll-cage, then unless it's advertised as
being fully MSA/FIA approved, it is the buyers responsibility to ensure it is fully approved and compliant, otherwise they run the risk of being
turned away or having to modify the vehicle.
The MK was allowed to race in the 750mc which would suggest that the cage passed scrutineering at the event.
It therefore seems to me that the issue is with the scrutineers application of their own rules/guidelines.
Phil
[Edited on 8-2-11 by Hellfire]
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loggyboy
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 01:28 PM | |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
This thread's gone waaay off topic.........
AFAIK, MK Sportscars have never claimed that their roll-cage is fully MSA/FIA approved and if thats the case, they have nothing/no-one to answer
to.
There own websites states
Roll cage - Full race spec
Meaning if its not 'approved' then it must comply with the Bluebook/MSA diagrams. Which ones witha double bend in dont.
If it is approved then it should be a simple matter of providing the certificate, and all owners of the approved cages would have stickers on the cage
proving it has been 'approved'.
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Kriss
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 01:57 PM | |
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For me "full race spec" is just as "racing" as a set of halfords racing pdeals or shiney gear knob. In my head, race spec
shows that its a full cage targeted for those with some form of track use in mind. I wouldnt read too much into it but it would help to comment next
to the description the current status on approval etc.
Would the MK cage be compliant if the front down tubes did not have the lower bend and they mounted to the outside of the cage with no lower bends?
For me it would seem so.
I can understand Matt's views and he does have a real passion for this, lets not knock that. I feel his frustration probably is fueled by MK not
stepping up to the plate on this challenge with clear facts, and that the original topic never once needed for race results and car performance in
ragrds to lap times to be bought into debate.
I for one hope we do not loose Matt on the forum. I am an MK owner, and Matt has been very helpful in dealing with my car with a hat on which says,
"this is what you have car wise, this is what we can do within your budget or prefference". never has he gone onto slate the MK further
than it is needed or said he wouldnt touch one to work on it.
The original subject of this thread is customer service, and there are plenty of current MK owners i suspect checking in on this thread to see what
the deal is regarding the cage and approval from Mk. Again, customer service is disapointing here as they must be more than aware of the subject and I
am sure they can give a clear an honest answer if the a) know the answer, and b) if its perhaps not want we want to hear, are happy still to be
upfront and honest.
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interestedparty
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 02:54 PM | |
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quote:
Originally posted by Kriss
For me "full race spec" is just as "racing" as a set of halfords racing pdeals or shiney gear knob. In my head, race spec
shows that its a full cage targeted for those with some form of track use in mind. I wouldnt read too much into it but it would help to comment next
to the description the current status on approval etc.
That's the way it seems to me. It should be understood by anyone planning to enter any particular race series to check for themselves that every
aspect of their entry, including thcage, the seatbelts, the fire extinguisher etc etc meets the rules for themselves
quote:
Originally posted by Kriss
I can understand Matt's views and he does have a real passion for this, lets not knock that. I feel his frustration probably is fueled by MK not
stepping up to the plate on this challenge with clear facts, and that the original topic never once needed for race results and car performance in
ragrds to lap times to be bought into debate.
I for one hope we do not loose Matt on the forum. I am an MK owner, and Matt has been very helpful in dealing with my car with a hat on which says,
"this is what you have car wise, this is what we can do within your budget or prefference". never has he gone onto slate the MK further
than it is needed or said he wouldnt touch one to work on it.
The original subject of this thread is customer service, and there are plenty of current MK owners i suspect checking in on this thread to see what
the deal is regarding the cage and approval from Mk. Again, customer service is disapointing here as they must be more than aware of the subject and I
am sure they can give a clear an honest answer if the a) know the answer, and b) if its perhaps not want we want to hear, are happy still to be
upfront and honest.
I don't think it's fair to keep insisting that MK answer this particular question, and pretty much a waste of time too. It's my
assumption that their cage doesn't have the particular approval referred to, but, as has already been proved, it's not necessary for every
form of racing and is indeed used in at least one race series.
I don't think that Matt is frustrated in the slightest. I think he already knows perfectly well that the MK cage doesn't have the
particular approval he refers to, and that his cage does, and he wants everyone to know that. All he needs to do now is to say whether it is the same
price or not.
[Edited on 8/2/11 by interestedparty]
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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Triton
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 02:56 PM | |
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Time for chill pills all round I think.
My Daughter has taken over production of the damn fine Triton race seats and her contact email is emmatrs@live.co.uk.
www.tritonraceseats.com
www.hairyhedgehog.com
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Alfa145
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 03:14 PM | |
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quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
.... All he needs to do now is to say whether it is the same price or not.
[Edited on 8/2/11 by interestedparty]
What has price got to do with it? Its common sence an approved one would cost more than one not approved, due to the cost of approving it....
I can prob make an even cheaper one out of plastic pipe, but thats not going to protect me in a crash is it?
[Edited on 8/2/11 by Alfa145]
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procomp
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 03:19 PM | |
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Hi
I am going to add this last post on this thread.
For the record i do not make a FIA cage that is legal to fit to the MK's so references to me trying to gain business or profit from this is
ridiculous.
The reason for my interest in this subject is that i find it very awkward to tell a customer (who has approached me to do some work on his MK and prep
it for racing) that his car dose not meet the basic rollcage regulations required despite the fact that MK have sold him a car for the purpose of
racing and despite the fact that they have told him that they have all the relevant paperwork from the MSA. There is at least one guy in this thread
earlier who is in a similar position. Quite frankly is P's me off no end to see someone led up the garden path with BS for them only to find
that they are going to end up out of pocket. Even there semi supported car of Ian Kempson had to change his roll cage due to the non compliance of
roof bars front legs and front leg mounting design.
Cheers Matt
PS. Dose anyone have a printed copy of the spec sheet for the Indy R where there was direct reference to MSA/FIA IE before the web pages where
altered this week.
[Edited on 8/2/11 by procomp]
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Benzine
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 03:29 PM | |
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quote:
Originally posted by procomp
PS. Dose anyone have a printed copy of the spec sheet for the Indy R where there was direct reference to MSA/FIA IE before the web pages where
altered this week.
This page?
if so that page has been the same since at least 28th Jan according to google cache
google cache
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interestedparty
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 03:36 PM | |
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quote:
Originally posted by Alfa145
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
.... All he needs to do now is to say whether it is the same price or not.
[Edited on 8/2/11 by interestedparty]
What has price got to do with it? Its common sence an approved one would cost more than one not approved, due to the cost of approving it....
I can prob make an even cheaper one out of plastic pipe, but thats not going to protect me in a crash is it?
[Edited on 8/2/11 by Alfa145]
I see your point, but I'm not sure if you are seeing mine? I could probably make an even more expensive one out of titanium and carbon fibre
that would qualify for F1, but that isn't needed either, and is an example of an idea being taken to a ridiculous point in the other
direction.
quote:
Originally posted by procomp
The reason for my interest in this subject is that i find it very awkward to tell a customer (who has approached me to do some work on his MK and prep
it for racing) that his car dose not meet the basic rollcage regulations required despite the fact that MK have sold him a car for the purpose of
racing and despite the fact that they have told him that they have all the relevant paperwork from the MSA. There is at least one guy in this thread
earlier who is in a similar position. Quite frankly is P's me off no end to see someone led up the garden path with BS for them only to find
that they are going to end up out of pocket. Even there semi supported car of Ian Kempson had to change his roll cage due to the non compliance of
roof bars front legs and front leg mounting design.
If that really was the case then they would have an easy an unbeatable case in court, and could do it themselves up to £5000 worth. I wonder why that
hasn't happened? Would it be because the provable facts of the matter aren't quite the same as the impression we are being given?
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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hicost blade
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 04:22 PM | |
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If that really was the case then they would have an easy an unbeatable case in court, and could do it themselves up to £5000 worth. I wonder why that
hasn't happened? Would it be because the provable facts of the matter aren't quite the same as the impression we are being given?
I'm sure that it wouldn't stand up in court because of the way they word the so called description, makes it very difficult to prove in a
court of law.
That still makes no difference to Matts statement, the MK cage isnt MSA approved never was never will be with that current design.......end of
argument
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blakep82
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 04:35 PM | |
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whats MSA/FIA certification got to do with the original post?
this thread's going nowhere.. i think it needs to be closed
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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carpmart
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 04:43 PM | |
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BLIMEY! 
What a thread, only just seen it!
Anyway, coming to this with an objective view point as I am, two things need to happen here
1 - Lets approach all future post on this thread with a constructive as opposed to a negative position, its really quite a lot of old tittle tattle
and is not conducive to the excellent community spirit of Locostbuilders. Frankly if you want a slagging match, clear off to Pistonheads.
2 - The cage does indeed look very strong BUT please can MK just definitively confirm that its complaint or not?
Come on chaps, lets play nicely from now on!
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack 
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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interestedparty
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 04:45 PM | |
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quote:
Originally posted by hicost blade
If that really was the case then they would have an easy an unbeatable case in court, and could do it themselves up to £5000 worth. I wonder why that
hasn't happened? Would it be because the provable facts of the matter aren't quite the same as the impression we are being given?
I'm sure that it wouldn't stand up in court because of the way they word the so called description, makes it very difficult to prove in a
court of law.
That still makes no difference to Matts statement, the MK cage isnt MSA approved never was never will be with that current design.......end of
argument
Sorry but that's absolute rubbish. First of all, civil cases require a much lower standard of proof than criminal cases. As long as the judge
believes the claimant over the defendant, then he/she will decide for the claimant.
Secondly, the argument isn't about whether or not the cage is MSA approved, because no-one is claiming that it is. Never-the-less, it is
racing as the pictures prove.
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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Fozzie
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| posted on 8/2/11 at 07:30 PM | |
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This thread has gone way, way off topic.....
Thread now closed ......
Fozzie...........Admin
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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