MakeEverything
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 11:58 AM |
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Why the IVA Panic?
Ok, forgive my ignorance here (if any) but ive read about IVA, SVA and have the draft manual, but i dont understand why people are panicking about IVA
coming in in March/April. The only noteable difference is the cost that i can see, but then i wear glasses!
Ive started a new thread, because i couldnt find any with this argument in, only lots of early discussion but now that its looming upon us, i thought
id ask again, as whatever has been published is pretty much certain to stand when test appled for.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 12:01 PM |
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and the 2dB reduction in noise limits, and the requirement for BEC's to have reverse for starters. Personally i'd rather keep the
additional £1000 (approx) in my pocket.
With the IVA manual not even finalised, what other little surprises might we be in for?? Personally i can see every reason why the panic is on - i
wouldnt fancy building for IVA at the moment, trying to meet the moving goalposts that is the new regulations
[Edited on 25/2/09 by Paul TigerB6]
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Jasongray5
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 12:03 PM |
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I think the price is the main thing!!
But for BEC the addition of a reverse gear, and the noise limit being reduced.
But again the speculation of price, and of course, the majority hates CHANGE!!
How hard can it be?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33261515@N03/sets/72157611049241239/
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dinosaurjuice
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 12:04 PM |
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2db? use better silencers
reverse? well thats just sensible
cost? this is what annoys me...
the idea of building a cheap kitcar for the fun of it has been thrown out of proportion by spending the same again registering it
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mookaloid
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 12:04 PM |
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Well I think it is pretty much the cost that's the issue.
Also for BEC's the requirement for a reverse gear
There may be a few unknowns ......
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 12:09 PM |
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ok, cool thankyou. That confirms my suspicion..... were all tight!
In all seriousness, however cheap or expensive a kit car, we all knew it wouldnt be as cheap as we would have liked. I share the same thoughts as
many of you in that its another government ripoff, but unfortunately.....Welcome to the UK! (unless your seking asylum in which case we'll give
you a new car for free, clothe you, feed your family and let you off for mugging old ladies on Oxford St.).
...Not that im bitter, but recent experiences have taught me that there is nothing that we say or do will make the government listen, particularly in
the current climate.
Come the revolution however.....
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 12:13 PM |
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And as Gunny Highway said....
"...Improvise, Adapt and Overcome..."
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 12:20 PM |
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Personally i dont think its about being tight. I object to a 200% inflationary increase, especially at a time like this and for what?? I cant see any
way that they can justify the cost increase seeing as the test isnt exactly going to take much longer. Just seems like yet another tax on the long
suffering motorist to me. I dont mind the requirement for reverse or the reduction in noise limits (especially as many track days require lower noise
limits than SVA) really - its pretty logical to try and build to meet those requirements - but its different for those who have already built to meet
SVA requirements.
[Edited on 25/2/09 by Paul TigerB6]
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wilkingj
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 12:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
I cant see any way that they can justify the cost increase seeing as the test isnt exactly going to take much longer. Just seems like yet another tax
on the long suffering motorist to me.
[Edited on 25/2/09 by Paul TigerB6]
At £150 for about 4+ hours work, they are probably making a loss on the SVA. especially when you take into accoutn the maintenance of the facility /
buildings / Land etc.
Its as simple as that.
They are just getting more commercial.
However, I do agree with you.
Previous Governments have had a history of promoting, all self teaching disciplines.
eg Amateur Radio - a High proportion of Radio Professionals got into it as a Radio Ham.
This is Self teach car mechanics.
Historically the Gov't has supported all these sorts of things.
Unfortunately they have recently got commerical minded. Just like anything else. They dont want it to make a loss, even if it doent make a huge
profit.
Thats what its mostly about.
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 12:42 PM |
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£540 - £600 for what is typically around 3hrs work is extortionate in my eyes. Ok there is the administration of the application but i dont believe
there is more than 1 man hr involved in that myself so we could be looking at £125 - £150 per hour at those sorts of charges. Even BMW / Merc main
stealers dont get away with those sorts of rates do they??
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 12:43 PM |
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Speaking to the tester yesterday he was saying that they're looking at recieving more paper work from us the builder. It's entirely
possible that all fuel tanks will need to be manufacturer certified along possibly with many other parts.
He did also give me a newsletter to read which clearly states that the last date of sva acceptance forms is 28th Feb and all tests appointed and
carried out before 29th of April. Also it states that cars MUST be deemed to be in a completed state and if not tests WILL be refused by the
testers.
Also any documentation asked for but not given in time may see your cheques/forms returned and you bieng told to apply for an IVA ( if the 28th
deadline has passed.)
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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smart51
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 01:02 PM |
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Most people worrying about IVA have a fear of the unknown. It doesn't help that IVA is almost here and the manuals have not been finalised.
Once IVA has been running for a few months and all the dust settles, people will be happy again, bar the extra cost, of course.
BEC reverse is a pain for those who don't want one but anyone starting from here will just add it to the list of things to buy.
Covered exhausts (if we have to have them) will similarly annoy some but newbies will just get on with it.
Quieter silencers will probably annoy some. There is a body of opinion on here that don't really want to conform to current regs and cheat by
fitting temporary dB killers. Personally, I don't want an overly loud exhaust. Once I can hear it clearly, that's enough. Quiet
exhausts are good for track days too.
The price hike is eye wateringly high though.
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Bluemoon
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 01:15 PM |
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Personaly it's taken a long time for me to get the car build done (many other things to do in life as well)..
So the thought of having to change stuff and spend more cash and time to make it ready for IVA hardly fills me with excitement! i.e I don't have
seats with a headrest ect etc...
If I was starting knowing the IVA rules, no problem (if a little more expensive)... But I build it for the SVA..
Dan
[Edited on 25/2/09 by Bluemoon]
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 01:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
and the 2dB reduction in noise limits, and the requirement for BEC's to have reverse for starters. Personally i'd rather keep the
additional £1000 (approx) in my pocket.
Well just build with a car engine and save you money 
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 01:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
Well just build with a car engine and save you money
Hey i'm not THAT desperate to keep the grand!!!
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 01:42 PM |
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There is no requirement for covered exhausts, it has been removed as of version 3.2 of the manual.
Some people may get three-hour tests if their build is very simple and very tidy, but it's not uncommon to have a 4-5 hour or more test. If you
work out the average test length, the admin cost and the overheads for equipmet and facilities then unless you expect the taxpayer to subsidise your
car then the fee was always going to have to be significantly higher than SVA just to make ends meet.
Whether £500+ is justified is up for argument, but to compare it to SVA which essentially was a bargain is not a fair comparison.
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adithorp
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 01:50 PM |
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With the cost increase bear in mind that the official full cost of an MOT is £53 for what officially should take 35-45 mins. Thats including the
paperwork.
IVA needs more equipment, more admin and the test itself takes 4+ hours. Just to play devils advocate...Why should the average motorist/taxpayer
subsidise that?
SVA was under priced.
adrian
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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CaptainJosh
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 02:18 PM |
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I'm sure there are plenty of things you wish your tax wasn't paid into though, I would rather it went into subsidizing IVA personally 
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hughpinder
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 03:12 PM |
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I don't mind the price increasing to cover actual cost - I do not believe the government should make a profit however.
My local DAF truck dealer, which has all the same equipment as a VOSA centre, runs at a profit and they charge £45 per hour for labour.
If you say an average test takes 5 hrs for the tester and 1 of paperwork, then VOSA could still turn a profit at £270 (plus vat).
Still we've got to payer the bankers bonuses somehow I suppose
Hugh
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 03:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CaptainJosh
I'm sure there are plenty of things you wish your tax wasn't paid into though, I would rather it went into subsidizing IVA personally
Couldnt agree more. The motorist is subsidising the country to the tune of £30billion plus per year already. I'd just love to see the figures
that VOSA are using to justify the 200% approx price increase. Bit of transparency would go a long way - but then this is a government dept so it wont
happen!!
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stevebubs
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 04:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
£540 - £600 for what is typically around 3hrs work is extortionate in my eyes. Ok there is the administration of the application but i dont believe
there is more than 1 man hr involved in that myself so we could be looking at £125 - £150 per hour at those sorts of charges. Even BMW / Merc main
stealers dont get away with those sorts of rates do they??
Yes - they do. IIRC even the local Vx dealer is £100/hr + VAT....
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adithorp
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 04:42 PM |
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Average dealer labour rate is currently £110 an hour (from Warrenty Holdings claims figures last year). Highest was £200 by a BMW dealer in central
London. There's regional variation and Scottish dealers were the cheapest.
Dealers local to me (Manchester) are around £100 an hour. I've heard a few talking about dropping MOT testing because the bean counters
don't see the test fee/time/men(tester and assistant) as adding up. They'll just sub it out.
adrian
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 04:59 PM |
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I think its about right. It sucks but government agencies can't make a profit, we arn't lining some fat cats pockets.
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 05:11 PM |
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If you look at what matt claydon says it does add up to more than the current sva costs ( probably much much more)
You've got 4 poster lifts exhaust gas analizers computerised brake check rollers/systems in excees of those required for MOT also
rollers/speedometer checkers exhaust gas extractors. the training for the testers plus expenses/travel overnight allowance accomodation training
manuals paper work computers printers etc etc etc the list goes on Plus an office girl or 2 and receptionist.
The guy that tested me yesterday was also the station Manager As for a 3 hour test then yes it is possible but as already said that's if
it's a tidy standard sort of build. If it's a crudy looking piece of junk then i'd imagine it takes a lot more looking over. It has
on occasions taken more than 5 hours I was told.
[Edited on 25/2/09 by omega 24 v6]
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 25/2/09 at 05:12 PM |
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lol, what have i done!! 
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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