I love speed :-P
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 posted on 31/3/04 at 05:02 PM |
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Price-Power-Reliability
Which is the best engine for all of those three factors above, power wise I am looking for about 150-160bhp, with the poss of going 2 about 200 in a
couple of years time.
Btw it has 2 be a car engine and 2 litre or less in size, also if it used an ecu, what are they like,
Thanks 4 ur time
Philip Moreton
Don't Steal
The Government doesn’t like the competition
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britishtrident
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| posted on 31/3/04 at 05:06 PM |
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Sounds like a spec for a Zetec car but the Vauxhall guys will tell you that will work also.
Another way round would be start with an
xr3 CVH then go Zetec after SVA.
[Edited on 31/3/04 by britishtrident]
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ray.h.
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| posted on 31/3/04 at 05:59 PM |
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The Zetec would be my choice.
They are appearing in breakers more often and prices are comming down all the time.There are loads of tune up parts available and they are destined to
be the Pinto of the future.
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zetec
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| posted on 31/3/04 at 09:24 PM |
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You will need to look at a aftermarket ECU if you want to up the BHP later otherwise you will be limited if using Ford ECU/injection. For 200BHP you
will be looking at head and cam mods for zetec, most tuners say cams alone are a waste as the power increase is not that great without porting.
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I love speed :-P
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| posted on 31/3/04 at 09:27 PM |
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thansk 4 ur answers so far but 2 more questions
1) is it worth converting it 2 carbs
2) how much will it cost 4 150bhp incluing the engine, and then how much more 2 go 2 the 200?
thanks 4 ur time
Philip Moreton
[Edited on 31/3/2004 by I love speed :-P]
Don't Steal
The Government doesn’t like the competition
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britishtrident
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| posted on 31/3/04 at 10:57 PM |
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First thing is do you really want so much power ? A locost is a very light car a little power goes a long way once you get over about 110 bhp the law
of dimishing returns applies especially as the Seven hs the aerodynamic of brickwall.
150 bhp is relatively easy with the 1.8 Zetec just change the induction --- however the Zetec is a expensive engine to install in a kit car, most of
the companies selling the bolt on bits you need will try to take you to the cleaners. I strongly suspect a 150 bhp Zetec will cost 3 grand by the
time you get it fitted., going beyond towards 200 bhp is really just a matter of cams and head --- beyond that forget the Zetec.
Another alternative is the Toyota see RAW enginnering http://www.rawengineering.co.uk/RAW_engines.html
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 31/3/04 at 11:13 PM |
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didnt I read sumat on here onece or twice that the zetec need several hundred quid to get it to work - ie ignition, bellhousing, carbs, blah de blah.
Its not a cheap choice then.........
Over 2 litres - a rover V8 would fit the bill and so would a cologne if you can get it to fit - 150hp as std and a little over 200 as std if you get a
cossie version.
atb
steve
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thekafer
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| posted on 31/3/04 at 11:36 PM |
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The mx5 (miata) seems to be a popular chioce over here.It's a well built 1600 to 2000cc DOHC.they are everywhere,really cheap for what you get(a
complete donor).Even daddy Ron just released a Miata based kit. If the tuner mags can be believed they can make an honest 200bhp for relatively
cheap.(1600cc)
They are rumored to be very light also.
Just a thought, Fletch.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy...
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richardiainlowe
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 03:56 PM |
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go for the nissan 200sx engine - ca18det
check out:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=10256
rich
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britishtrident
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 05:52 PM |
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Because of this thread I started lookin into Toyota units - very tempting
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 07:39 PM |
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check yahoo groups - the aussies use the 4age a lot.
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zetec
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 10:15 PM |
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As soon as you move onto any car without a distributor you are looking at either getting the donor ECU to work or get a aftermarket one, the good news
is if you want to change to a different engine in a few years just get the ECU remapped. Work out the figures for most engines and I suspect they will
all be almost the same for 150BHP. Good news with zetec/toyota/Vx engines are the most easy to source and reliable enough not to need a rebuild. Try
dragging a RV8 out of the donor and not have to spend £££ getting it back to good health, tails of woe about knackered cams/cranks at 80000 miles
common.
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craig1410
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| posted on 1/4/04 at 10:28 PM |
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Zetec,
With the money you'd save not having to fart about with fancy ECU's and then building a suitable wiring loom, you could have a Rover V8
pumping out 200BHP+ without breaking a sweat.
I think you'll find that they are also a tad more reliable than you are suggesting, provided they have been well maintained of course. I got my
RV8 from an original series 1 SD1 with just over 90k miles on the clock and it runs just fine. I should have it running in the next few weeks once I
build a suitable silencer system so you'll be able to hear it for yourself.
In any event I think a limit of 2 litres was included in the question, presumably for insurance purposes so I guess it's academic. I don't
honestly see why an RV8 3.5 litre should be any more expensive to insure than a Zetec (or other sub 2 litre engines) as they all put out similar
horsepower. The big advantage of the RV8 is that you sound like your going fast even sitting in the garage listening to the burble... 
Cheers,
Craig.
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zetec
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 09:57 AM |
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Not sure what the farting about bit is...no needles or chokes to change. I've had more hassle with setting up twin carbs than I will ever have
with injection. The main reason I went for a zetec is that there are 20 sitting in every scrap yard so if I do blow mine up, and I do try, a couple of
hundred quid and 4hrs with the spanners and another one is in and running. Can't imagine RV8 kicking out 200bhp without at least heads and cams
being changed and upgrade to standard SU, Vitesse got near it but was that running a fancy fart about ECU. You are right about sound, can't be
beat. Each to their own I guess.
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craig1410
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 10:39 AM |
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Zetec,
200BHP is easily achievable with a 3.5 litre RV8 and it doesn't require anything major done with heads or cams. There are several routes which
you can follow depending on which engine you start off with. Ideally you should start with the Vitesse engine and the first thing you would probably
do is throw away (or sell) the "fancy fart about ECU" and replace it with a Holley or ideally a Weber 500 carb. That coupled with a pair
of K&N filters and a decent exhaust system would be putting out 210-220BHP as the Vitesse starts out with 193BHP. If you "only" want
200BHP then just fit a pair of K&N's and you are there! The standard ECU will cope with this without any significant changes. Given that you
will probably have a more freely flowing exhaust on a side-pipe equipped "seven" anyway then you will probably get a few BHP more than the
193BHP baseline so I wouldn't be surprised if 205BHP was produced with K&N's and side-pipes. If you also have custom headers then
another 10-15BHP could be released.
If you start off with a non-Vitesse RV8 then you have a baseline of 155BHP. The best route would be to find a pair of standard Vitesse heads and buy a
set of standard (or oversize if rebore required) Vitesse pistons which run 9.75:1 compression ratio. The heads and pistons are the main reason the
Vitesse has more power than the standard SD1, it has nothing much to do with the fuel injection system. EFI has more to do with fuel economy and
emissions as most people are aware. Carbs are good!
As for changing needles and jets, this is not a problem if you follow a good tuning manual. It just requires a methodical approach. However, if you
can't be bothered with this then just go for a "standard" setup. There are many people out there running Vitesse heads with Vitesse
pistons and K&N's, freeflowing exhaust, bigger headers etc etc and they will be able to tell you what jets or needles they are using based
on dyno testing and setup. You could also get it set up on a dyno yourself which is the best option and this is not as expensive as many people think.
Just find a garage who are familiar with your engine and carb which isn't a problem for an RV8 and either a Holley 390 or Weber 500.
You can change cam (note singular) if you like and this will give you perhaps another 10-20BHP for a mild road cam but I'd only do this if the
existing cam was worn badly and/or I was stripping the valve gear for some other reason.
So you could have between 200 and 250BHP for anything from the cost of a pair of K&N filters upwards depending on where you start and you
wouldn't have to worry about "blowing it up" as it will still be a big lazy V8 and will still have the same unstressed
characteristics and bags of smooth torque.
Cheers,
Craig.
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phelpsa
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 10:51 AM |
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Bike engine!
R1 and GSXR1000 have 150bhp standard.
Take it to TTS and they will easily get it to 200bhp, or stick on a turbo and get 350bhp.
R1 engines can be had for £800 - £1000 and Gixer 1000 a little less.
Adam
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Jamesfear
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 11:52 AM |
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I don’t see your need to justify the rv8. Zetec just answered the question that was asked!
[Edited on 2/4/04 by Jamesfear]
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craig1410
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 11:52 AM |
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Hi,
Didn't the author of this thread mention something about it being a car engine and less than 2 litres displacement... 
Here we are talking about 3.5 litre V8's and bike engines!
Cheers,
Craig.
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craig1410
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 12:10 PM |
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Jamesfear,
Zetec made comments which I think were misleading and in some cases incorrect so I in turn answered them back! This is a forum after all...
As I have since said, this is all missing the point of the original author so you'll be pleased to hear that I won't be posting any
further comments about the RV8. I don't think it was me who mentioned the RV8 in the first place anyway.
Cheers,
Craig.
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Jamesfear
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 12:23 PM |
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I did not mean to get on your back m8.
There just is no point in justifying the rv8 because it’s just the tops.
I will be using a zetec in my 7 but I have had lots of v8 land rovers in the past.
Why do you think the army use the landy v8!
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I love speed :-P
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 12:29 PM |
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hay i dont mind, as long as some1 else use the info it is worth it, so ppl seam 2 think zetec, so how much is it going 2 cost me 4 everything for
150bhp?
p.s. thanks 4 the info so far
Phil
Don't Steal
The Government doesn’t like the competition
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Jamesfear
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 12:38 PM |
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If you use the MegaSquirt Electronic Fuel Injection Computer By Bowling & Grippo keep all the ford injection and get and new intake manifold made
up (mine will be the same as the one luego have) you are looking at about £200 to £350 to get the zetec up and running in a seven
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timf
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 12:38 PM |
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http://www.raceline.co.uk/zetecframes.htm
for zetec but remeber it can be done cheaper
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craig1410
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 03:57 PM |
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Jamesfear,
No probs.
As you can tell I am fiercely protective of the RV8 as it was the engine which my Dad had in two SD1's which he owned during most of my
childhood. I love its simplicity and of course the noise!
Despite working for Lucas Automotive Electronics as a design engineer after I graduated, where I worked on the design of the Lucas variant of common
rail diesel ECU's, I subscribe to the "simpler is better" approach for the Seven type car. Stick to carbs and simple ignition (no
points mind) and you won't go far wrong. If you stick to older engines (pre 1995 IIRC??) then you don't need to worry about catalytic
converters and thus you don't need electronic fuel injection.
Anyway, that's me getting off my soapbox now to make space for someone else... 
Cheers,
Craig.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 2/4/04 at 04:21 PM |
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Without question the Vauxhall XE 16v wins all round here. it has more potential (for the same money) than a Zetec as the Vauxhall valves are bigger
and further from the chamber walls. A decent engine which doesn't need a rebuild can be had for £450 and this will put out 150 hp on the
standard injection that it comes with. If you don't beleive me about the price, see what Cavalier GSI 16v and astra 16v's are going for!!
Just buy a good running car, take what you need and break the rest for spares to get some of the money back. I have used these engines in several cars
(Pug 205 RWD, Opel Manta, Grasstrack special), and will shortly be putting one in a locost.
Gearbox-wise, you can either get an adaptor bellhousing (£70 s/h) to use the Ford Type 9 'box or you can use the standard 1800cc Opel Manta
gearbox which bolts straight on. (use Astra/Cav pressure plate and 1800 Manta friction Plate) The manta 1800 will also donate a nice alloy lowline big
wing sump which they had as standard! (you can pick up an 1800 Manta for £50 if you again want to buy a whole car which is usually cheaper!!)
For upgrading the Vauxhall is by far and away ahead of the Zetec unless you are building a full-race engine with big valves, in which case the
Zetec's samll ones are of less significance. I run an internally standard Vauxhall 16v XE 2.0 engine from a Cavalier GSI 16v in my grasstrack
racer. I use MBE engine management and throttle bodies and the car gave 176hp @ wheels (204 hp @ flywheel) on John Wilcox Rolling Road in Hinckley. I
don't think the Zetec will do that!
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