unijacko67
|
| posted on 19/3/13 at 09:21 PM |
|
|
S2000 ECU interesting features!!
S2000 ECU interesting features!!
(standard 2007 s2000 ecu)
I’m getting well on with my s2000 install/build and have removed half the loom, each night disconnecting the battery after testing etc. Anyway it’s
come to my attention that the standard ECU needs to do a re-learn after the battery has been disconnected, which involves letting the car idle for a
few minuets, in this time the idle will vary from 900-1500 rpm and it re sets itself then the idle settles.
Before I realised this sometimes I would connect up the battery start the car and blip the throttle (07 car so by wire) and nothing would happen as it
would almost feel like the throttle was disconnected, this I presume has been confusing the ECU as it would have been in re-learn mode, then I could
re-start the car and throttle would be back.
I also started it up the other night and noticed the exhaust manifold getting hot over quickly as the radiator fan hadn’t even kicked in and the
manifold was hot enough to almost light a bit wood shaving. Fearing it was running lean I turned it off let it cool then without adjusting anything
manually did a restart it all worked as it should, manifold never got that hot again as I tested it with the same bit of wood shaving and no
smouldering. Anyway it all seems fine, but I don’t want to have to do a ECU re-learn every time I disconnect the battery as I intend fitting a battery
master switch so how do you lot that are running standard S2000 ECU get around this. If anyone can elaborate on this or have experience (first hand
please) on these ECU’s I would appreciate any extra info. Thanks.
http://www.kittenkitcar.co.uk
|
|
|
|
|
daniel mason
|
| posted on 19/3/13 at 09:36 PM |
|
|
does it just re learn the idle? or does it stop it running lean right through rev range? your getting on well mate
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 19/3/13 at 09:43 PM |
|
|
Quite common for ECUs to go through a learning process when first powered up including starting in with a set of base settings like retarded timing (a
bit more stable when things are unknown), which would heat your exhaust manifold more than normal.
|
|
|
unijacko67
|
| posted on 19/3/13 at 09:56 PM |
|
|
Hi Dan,
I'm not sure (when it did this) if its lean or weak, but when I let it do a re-learn it all works well and when the ignition key is turned of
you can here the solenoids or something clicking (as it did in the standard car) in or around the throttle body. When the manifold got hot there
seemed to be no clicks after the key was turned off so I presume something had not connected/opened/closed/worked/ect.
I believe the ecu is quite intelligent even adjusting to driving styles and road condition, but would like to know more if anyone has any experience
with standard ecu. Cheers.
Thanks Coyoteboy, sounds about rite. Cheers
http://www.kittenkitcar.co.uk
|
|
|
daniel mason
|
| posted on 19/3/13 at 10:02 PM |
|
|
what have you done with the 2 x original lambda sensors in the loom?
|
|
|
unijacko67
|
| posted on 19/3/13 at 10:07 PM |
|
|
The first is in place and the second it in clean air. Both seem to be working as the second one although its not in the exhaust does indeed get warm.
http://www.kittenkitcar.co.uk
|
|
|
Brett Jones
|
| posted on 19/3/13 at 10:20 PM |
|
|
One thing to note is that every time you disconnect the power to the ECU, you also clear any error codes and these will not come back immediately and
may take some time to register again. So it may be worth while keeping it connected while you're chopping things out the loom.
http://mnrvtecvortxbuild.blogspot.co.uk/
|
|
|
unijacko67
|
| posted on 19/3/13 at 10:32 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Brett Jones
One thing to note is that every time you disconnect the power to the ECU, you also clear any error codes and these will not come back immediately and
may take some time to register again. So it may be worth while keeping it connected while you're chopping things out the loom.
Cheers Brett,
I've left it connected as I don’t want it doing the hot hot hot manifold again. I will have to read codes via obd as I got rid of cel light
(always gonna be on as no cold air pump) so can’t do the earth wire for the blink codes anymore.
http://www.kittenkitcar.co.uk
|
|
|
coyoteboy
|
| posted on 19/3/13 at 11:07 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by unijacko67
The first is in place and the second it in clean air. Both seem to be working as the second one although its not in the exhaust does indeed get warm.
This may well confuse it, it's not looking for clean air at the second sensor. I don't have the data on exactly how they interface but
there's more than a few instances of people who's secondary sensor has failed/is failing seeing large drops in economy despite not
throwing codes.
|
|
|
Brett Jones
|
| posted on 19/3/13 at 11:08 PM |
|
|
There are two options for the air pump, the first is replacing the pump with a resistor, thus tricking the ECU to think it's still there and the
second option is fitting a resistor to the temperature sensor making the ECU believe the car is already warm and does not ever need to switch the air
pump on.
http://mnrvtecvortxbuild.blogspot.co.uk/
|
|
|
unijacko67
|
| posted on 19/3/13 at 11:16 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by unijacko67
The first is in place and the second it in clean air. Both seem to be working as the second one although its not in the exhaust does indeed get warm.
This may well confuse it, it's not looking for clean air at the second sensor. I don't have the data on exactly how they interface but
there's more than a few instances of people who's secondary sensor has failed/is failing seeing large drops in economy despite not
throwing codes.
Cheers, would appriciate more help on this one as its used 3 gallon just on tickover and testing.
What’s the normal procedure for removal of cat regarding the sensors. Thanks.
http://www.kittenkitcar.co.uk
|
|
|
froggy
|
| posted on 20/3/13 at 12:52 AM |
|
|
Post cat lambda is a monitor and doesn't affect fuel trims if the pre cat sensor is working . On a car with the cat removed the ecu will see the
output out of range for the second sensor and a code relating to cat effiency . If you send a 0.5 volt signal to the ecu from the post cat output wire
it should be within the range for cat efficiency . The ecu ignores post cat output until the engine is warm and steady state running . Some ignore it
at idle as the cat may cool down even in closed loop .
[IMG]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/froggy_0[IMG]
|
|
|
Bare
|
| posted on 20/3/13 at 02:53 AM |
|
|
quote:
I believe the ecu is quite intelligent even adjusting to driving styles and road condition, but would like to know more if anyone has any experience
with standard ecu. Cheers.
Not been around Hondas much huh?.
Honda ECU's are Pre programmed See their PGM label :-) Honda expends serious efforts to preprogram ANY possible situation with their engine and
sets the ecu to respond accordingly.
Odd is one descriptor.
But... it also eliminates the need for a Horrid Air Mass meter.
Honda clearly believes that's worth the trouble. And judging by the Horror Show Bosch systems are.. a fairly astute point of view.
Honda ECU's Do Not adapt to anything.. beyond shuffling about within strictly defined preset tolerance parameters.
Dicking with these can be a genuine Can 'o worms. No joke that.
Many Serious Honda tuners go to a complete standalone replacement system and subsequently futz with it for years . Lotsa tales of Woe (google )
Best advice imo is Leave it stock! in everything.
Likely the S2000 unit decades more sophisticated than your diy Kit Kar.. ..by anyone's yardstick.
|
|
|
snapper
|
| posted on 20/3/13 at 07:13 AM |
|
|
There are battery cut off switches that have a circuit so Componants that need power all the time can take a feed from the switch whether the main
circuit is open or closed
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
|
|
|
MikeRJ
|
| posted on 20/3/13 at 07:24 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bare
quote:
I believe the ecu is quite intelligent even adjusting to driving styles and road condition, but would like to know more if anyone has any experience
with standard ecu. Cheers.
Not been around Hondas much huh?.
Honda ECU's are Pre programmed See their PGM label :-)
All ECU's that involve a microcontroller are programmed, "PGM" is simply the name that Honda chose of their system, same as Rover
had MEMS. Pretty much all OEM ECU's are adaptive as well, they have to be to cover the tolerances of all the injection and engine components,
and maintain the required emissions standards over life.
|
|
|
froggy
|
| posted on 20/3/13 at 08:54 AM |
|
|
I've had a few de catted cars that throw up cat efficiency codes and letting the ecu see a voltage within the right range usually .5 volts does
the trick . Pretty sure the Honda has a wideband pre cat sensor on it
[IMG]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/froggy_0[IMG]
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 20/3/13 at 12:12 PM |
|
|
Because people have been removing cats and foxing the secondary lambda sensors more recent OEM ECU's have more sophisticated methods of
checking the secondary lambda is present and working.
The secondary sensor has no effect on mixture its duty is only to check that the cats are working.
With few exceptions all ECUs including take a while to re-adapt after a reset they re-boot with a very conservative map, a glowing exhaust at
idle is more likely to indicated the ignition timing was retarded than a weak mixture.
If you want to retain settings between periods with the battery disconnected you are going to have to supply enough voltage to the ecu to keep its
volatile memory alive.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
|
|
|
RK
|
| posted on 20/3/13 at 12:37 PM |
|
|
Not to change the subject, but can anyone shed light on the SR20DET ECU? It also appears to hunt around at cold startup, prior to settling down.
CA18DET did not do this. MAF as standard, which I've kept. I actually have a rather expensive, AEM unit sitting around, I should sell really,
and I'm very curious to try, but afraid to screw things that are basically working up.
|
|
|
unijacko67
|
| posted on 20/3/13 at 10:25 PM |
|
|
Thanks for all the replies,
I've had it running tonight and it seems fine without the post cat sensor connected, Quite a few fault codes inc air pump. Will a fault code
make it run incorrectly and need the ecu tricking into thinking its not there via whatever it takes or can I run the car with certain non terminally
destructive fault codes. Thanks for all your help.
http://www.kittenkitcar.co.uk
|
|
|
ElmrPhD
|
| posted on 25/10/15 at 10:44 AM |
|
|
Ok, so I'm a couple years slow, but...is the consensus to keep the original S2000 ecu or is it best to start fresh with an aftermarket ecu (in
my case with the unused Omex 710 that I happen to possess)?
Considering buying an F20C motor/box/loom/ecu for my MNR, which was previously intended to use a K20A2 with Omex 710.
This is for a mostly track-oriented racer that will only become road legal if I can figure out some loophole around the horrid Dutch tax laws.
Thanks!
Steve, in the NLs
|
|
|
unijacko67
|
| posted on 25/10/15 at 11:02 AM |
|
|
I think better to go aftermarket ecu. If you keep the standard loom and ecu it's lots of work trimming the loom, but will work. The big down
side to this is not being able to do any mapping vtec wise, so it will be a pig to drive unless you have a kpro or flashpro fitted as they allow the
standard ecu to be mapped which again add's to the cost of the standard set up. I'm now using dta as things evolve it's good to have
some control.
http://www.kittenkitcar.co.uk
|
|
|
ElmrPhD
|
| posted on 25/10/15 at 02:46 PM |
|
|
Ah, so YOU were the former U.S. President who got Dan Mason's engine. (I, an American in Holland, have been chatting with Dan and checked out
your website)
Sounds like good advice, but not what I was hoping to hear as I try to reduce costs. Was hoping that you'd say, "No, Honda did all the
work for you and only the most expensive tuners can approach their mapping", so that I could sell off my Omex. The only Omex expert over here
that I can find is a complete...whom I refuse to further bankroll.
Ok, I'll use my Omex and pray for an alternative to appear...or take it over to the U.K. for tuning.
New topic: did you continue to get away with merely a sump baffle or did you eventually add a dry sump? Please tell me a baffle is sufficient for
track days!
Thanks!!!
Steve, in the NLs
|
|
|
unijacko67
|
| posted on 25/10/15 at 03:03 PM |
|
|
Haha, baffled sump worked for me on the standard engine even on slicks. I did create a huge cloud of smoke at Blyton Park upon braking very hard with
red hot slick's, but that was down to forgetting to blank off the rocker box breather that goes into the inlet manifold, as the oil moved
forward it probably got dragged into the rocker cover via the cam chain and allowed the oil to get sucked into the inlet where it then got swiftly
burnt along with the fuel, I got black flagged as it did look like the motor had let go, but all was well and an easy fix.
I have gone dry sump on the new motor so we can run a fair lump of vacuum in the engine, few more bhp and should be safer, lol
http://www.kittenkitcar.co.uk
|
|
|
unijacko67
|
| posted on 25/10/15 at 03:13 PM |
|
|
If you do decide to use original ecu, which works ace just try to keep the obd port working on the loom as you strip all the redundant circuits off
because that's what they use to connect the FlashPro (drive by wire) for a bit of mapping. You might not need to do this as your car might find
more grip than mine was at first as it will be a proven set up, mine's getting better, but was lethal when it hit vtec on standard ecu in the
beginning. I've altered spring rates and anti roll bar's now and it is a lot more planted, but way off the mark still compared with a
westfield.
http://www.kittenkitcar.co.uk
|
|
|
